INTJ with strong Fi

[toonia]

How might the INTJ personality appear with a strongly developed Fi?

I have tested both as an INFJ and an INTJ. I don't think I have that much extroverted Feeling, and I have a stronger desire to discuss and analyze with others than my INTP SO has. He asked me if perhaps I have extroverted Thinking. I don't enjoy talking about feelings especially when I am experiencing them, although analyzing psychological issues is interesting to me. I tend to subject my own emotions into systems I have worked out to control them. Right now I am in a depression and have worked out methods to keep my mind clear. I have a lot of mental discipline in that way which I have been developing since adolescence.

If there are INTJs on this board with a strongly developed Fi, it would be interesting to hear how that integrates into your personality framework.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

I have a very strong F. Depending on how I am feeling the day I test I usually am INTJ or INFJ. Sometimes when I am walking around I picture my TJ fluctuating from TP to TJ to FP to FJ. At any rate. My F is so strong because of my father. My father taught me the value in experiencing emotions to their true depth. I believe that it is always important to know how we feel and to be able to articulate it. I guess you could say my T tells me it is OK to be an F. My Jungian thought is that I am aiming for some sort of balance. I feel like I need to be more like an E. It would probably help me to be more of an S but it creeps me out to be an S, so I probably never will. I guess I have always thought that my emotions are very important to my intellectual/cognitive/mental well-being. In cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), we hold that we have a thought that informs an emotion. Antecedent event, behavior and consequence, I think (its been a while). Or ABC. Beck's Rational Emotive Therapy. Ok, so my my point is this. If I do not take care of myself emotionally, by expressing, articulating, really feeling I run the risk of my emotions informing my thoughts and then my rationality becomes overwhelmed. And I dont want that. Sorry this is so jumbled.

[Hdier]

Hah, my dad would have me extirpate all but the most shallow emotions. No fear, though, for my mom is on my side about emotions and books have taught me what AnandaMeansBliss' dad taught AmandaMeansBliss (we need to have 'gender' along with MBTI, Join Date, and Posts; it would make things so much easier). I developed a very strong F mainly due to those books that I read, because I always took them to heart, and developed a 'touchy-feely' side along with my cold, analytical 'screw emotions' side, which is what I revert to in public.

To sum up, basically I have a strong Fi despite my dad's best efforts, mainly due to the books he ignorantly bought me.

(sorry; I tend to ramble at times)

[The Many]

How might the INTJ personality appear with a strongly developed Fi?

I have tested both as an INFJ and an INTJ. I don't think I have that much extroverted Feeling, and I have a stronger desire to discuss and analyze with others than my INTP SO has. He asked me if perhaps I have extroverted Thinking. I don't enjoy talking about feelings especially when I am experiencing them, although analyzing psychological issues is interesting to me. I tend to subject my own emotions into systems I have worked out to control them. Right now I am in a depression and have worked out methods to keep my mind clear. I have a lot of mental discipline in that way which I have been developing since adolescence.

If there are INTJs on this board with a strongly developed Fi, it would be interesting to hear how that integrates into your personality framework.

Ironically enough this post just goes to show how MBTI theory doesn't match with reality... but let's not get into that debate now; I have already posted a thread about my views on it.

But still, I do feel quite a bit. I have several times been deeply depressed, but usually I think feeling is what makes life worth living. Most INFP profiles seem to say that they "never lose their sense of wonder"; and to some extent that goes for me too. I see beauty in life, a romantic, melancholy and ethereal beauty far more elevated and precious than the shallowness of ordinary aesthetics. Of course, this trait of mine may have risen from my depressions, in so far as that I have learnt to value life after having considered leaving it.

Of course, I never care for this when taking any important decisions. In fact I have found that changing the way I think about something also tends to mold my emotions around the way I think (I love cognitive psychology...), so pure, cold logic is very useful to achieve whatever I consider to be the best way to live and feel.

[Hdier]

whisper squeals, so that no one can hear him

Would you mind linking me to that thread, it sounds good.

[The Many]

whisper squeals, so that no one can hear him

Would you mind linking me to that thread, it sounds good.

I assume that was directed at me... and here is the thread: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[The Rose]

How might the INTJ personality appear with a strongly developed Fi?

I have tested both as an INFJ and an INTJ. I don't think I have that much extroverted Feeling, and I have a stronger desire to discuss and analyze with others than my INTP SO has. He asked me if perhaps I have extroverted Thinking. I don't enjoy talking about feelings especially when I am experiencing them, although analyzing psychological issues is interesting to me. I tend to subject my own emotions into systems I have worked out to control them. Right now I am in a depression and have worked out methods to keep my mind clear. I have a lot of mental discipline in that way which I have been developing since adolescence.

If there are INTJs on this board with a strongly developed Fi, it would be interesting to hear how that integrates into your personality framework.I have frequently said that I think/believe that I am an INTJ on the outside, but an INFJ on the inside. No matter what personality system I use, the result is always some anomaly.

I don't show "F" to the outside world, but when I read what Keirsey says about the NF "search for self", the pursuit of "becoming", the need to have a "purpose in life", the "hunger for self-actualization", the need to be authentic, those things describe me at the core of myself.

Of course, I show F sometimes, but it's not natural. I have to think about it and do it on purpose. Also, I am 48 years old, so I have had some practice now.

I don't understand Fi real well. I read a description but it didn't help much.
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I guess I can think of general examples. I have learned that it's not always important to give my opinion. I have learned that there are some things in life that are worth fighting over and some are not. And sometimes, something on the inside of me rises up in a kind of strong feeling like indignation, and I am compelled to speak up regardless of what I fear the consequences might be. I think that's Fi. Would you think so?

[toonia]

Ironically enough this post just goes to show how MBTI theory doesn't match with reality... but let's not get into that debate now; I have already posted a thread about my views on it.I plan to read your link as well. I prefer to maintain a degree of skepticism as well regarding MBTI.

But still, I do feel quite a bit. I have several times been deeply depressed, but usually I think feeling is what makes life worth living. Most INFP profiles seem to say that they "never lose their sense of wonder"; and to some extent that goes for me too. I see beauty in life, a romantic, melancholy and ethereal beauty far more elevated and precious than the shallowness of ordinary aesthetics. Of course, this trait of mine may have risen from my depressions, in so far as that I have learnt to value life after having considered leaving it.This is the issue for me. I have had many complex emotions to sort through, so developing an understanding of that part of myself has been required of me. I have a sense of self-respect in my ability to focus on growth rather than pity when feeling unwell emotionally. I find that I avoid strongly emotional types when processing my own emotions because it becomes overload. I am comfortable crying alone and prefer it most of the time. Pain has opened my eyes to beauty and meaning throughout my life. For that I am grateful.

Of course, I never care for this when taking any important decisions. In fact I have found that changing the way I think about something also tends to mold my emotions around the way I think (I love cognitive psychology...), so pure, cold logic is very useful to achieve whatever I consider to be the best way to live and feel.
I prefer that course as well. An important decision needs to stand through the course of any fleeting mood, so it should be made with a sense of distance. I will consider emotional components into the equation so to speak. For example, if I know my ability to function is lessened, then I will turn down certain requests knowing my emotional situation would make it harder for me to function at full capacity. I try not to make the decision based on perceptions colored by a fleeting emotion.

My external communication style tends to be "soft". IRL I am perceived as gentle and quiet, but I am much tougher inside. I find strength in my ability to distance myself when needed and am drawn towards people whose communication style is direct. Pressure to interact socially with emotional pleasantries wears me out. While I am polite and quiet avoiding conflicts, I prefer to avoid the pressure to make emotional gestures as well.

[Danellian]

I would have to say that I have a fairly well-developed Fi. The way I experience myself, I do have a lot of emphasis on self-improvement and authenticity. I am not, however, an understanding or agreeable person, and I am not well-attuned to my own desires and needs, in fact, I try to repress them to function "objectively" and "reasonably" so that I will not do something that my NiTe dictates will lead to error. I do not express my emotions well in front of people I don't know well, and around people I do know well, I'm still not comfortable expressing them. Sometimes it takes me awhile to understand what I'm really feeling and why I'm feeling it. When my Fi really comes out the most is when I am under stress, which is described really well in terms of the Enneagram. I am an E1, which goes to E4 under stress. E4 has a strong correlation with Fi, as well as depression. At my worst point in my life, I went through a period of depression, in which a lot of Fi came out, I became very depressed, moody, withdrawn, and self-pitying. Now, these things only come about when I am in a pretty bad mood and do not last for long. In my natural state, and when I am in an above average mood, my Fi is sort of not present on the surface structure of my personality, but presents as a motivation toward self-improvement and authenticity, and is repressed in the forms of attunement to personal desires, needs, and self-indulgence. The former is mediated through my Te and integrated into my Ni framework.

[The Rose]

... I am not well-attuned to my own desires and needs, in fact, I try to repress them to function "objectively" and "reasonably" so that I will not do something that my NiTe dictates will lead to error. ...I like the way you described that. I do it too.

[Wildflower]

These are my favorite articles about Fi:

Edited to add Click on "Feeling and Feeling Types" and then go three quarters of the way down this article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), at item C, a very detailed explaination of Fi that people here might find interesting.

This is another good site: Lenore Thompson on Introverted Feeling (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Also this site:

The Introverted Feeling Type (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Introverted feeling strives for an inner intensity that is unrelated to any external object. It devalues objective reality and is rarely displayed openly. When it does appear on the surface, it generally seems negative or indifferent. The focus of such feeling is upon inner processes and latent, primordial images. At its extreme, it may develop into mystical ecstasy.

The introverted feeling type is brooding and inaccessible, although may also hide behind a childish mask. Such a person aims to be inconspicuous, makes little attempt to impress and generally fails to respond to the feelings of others. The outer, surface appearance is often neutral, cold and dismissive. Inwardly, however, feelings are deep, passionately intense, and may accompany secret religious or poetic tendencies. The effect of all this on other people can be stifling and oppressive. When extreme or neurotic, this type may become domineering and vain. Negative repressed thinking may also be projected so that these persons may imagine they can know what others are thinking. This may develop into paranoia and into secret scheming rivalries.

[Paul V]

I have a high sense of right and wrong, and I strive to help others and do the most good. I don't mind sacrificing myself for the well-being of the innocents.

I use Logic when I approach problems to solve, though. Meaning I'm only Fi when it comes to moral and ethics (and I'm the most ethical person I know).

[The Rose]

These are my favorite articles about Fi:
Three quarters of the way down this article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), at item C, a very detailed explanation of Fi that people here might find interesting.
I had to click on Chapter V : Feeling and the Feeling Types

I could so much relate to this part:

"These people are absolutely certain as to the soundness of their ideals, but this is accompanied by a helpless feeling that it will never be possible to realize them in this world. They do not, however, reject the world, for feeling means the making of ties and is directed towards social contacts. In spite of ever-repeated collisions with the world and with other people, they can never give up their wish to love them both. They conceal their sensitiveness behind a mask, which may be childish, or simple, or again conventional, remote, or it may be friendly. But behind this mask the search goes on for someone who will understand, and for a community which will embody their ideals. However disappointed they are, they still in their innermost being believe implicitly in what their feelings tell them. Even if they are not able to express it clearly in words, they are inwardly quite certain as to what accords with them and what does not."

That's where I'm at right now.

[Wildflower]

I had to click on Chapter V : Feeling and the Feeling Types

I could so much relate to this part:

"These people are absolutely certain as to the soundness of their ideals, but this is accompanied by a helpless feeling that it will never be possible to realize them in this world. They do not, however, reject the world, for feeling means the making of ties and is directed towards social contacts. In spite of ever-repeated collisions with the world and with other people, they can never give up their wish to love them both. They conceal their sensitiveness behind a mask, which may be childish, or simple, or again conventional, remote, or it may be friendly. But behind this mask the search goes on for someone who will understand, and for a community which will embody their ideals. However disappointed they are, they still in their innermost being believe implicitly in what their feelings tell them. Even if they are not able to express it clearly in words, they are inwardly quite certain as to what accords with them and what does not."

That's where I'm at right now.


Thanks for adding that part about clicking on Feeling. :)

I think you are experiencing just what would be expected as INTJ becomes middle aged. I am dealing with developing stronger Te on the opposite side as middle aged INFP.

[Danellian]

Wildflower, thanks for the information on Fi. I regard Fi is what I secretly strive to embody, even though it is not my legitimate strength or something others are likely to see in me, it is a part of me such that it is the gate to self-development. Maybe this is true of the tertiary function in general. The creation of the feeling experience and the striving upward toward a spiritual experience is something I do in private. Perhaps a true Fi type would not "strive" toward spiritual experience so much, as that in their most developed state, they may be highly attuned to such experiences. But this is me trying to make use of my immature Fi, most likely. When I was a bit younger, I used to strive more for spiritual experiences, I would meditate, and such, trying to reach that experience. Now, I focus more on what I am doing in my life on a regular basis, and try to find satisfation from that, and if that leads to increased spiritual experience down that road, then that's great. For now, I need to focus on a feeling of wholeness within myself.

Rose, I relate to your quotation on Fi to the extent it speaks of being certain of their ideals. I do not relate, however, when it speaks of being understanding of others and yearning for a community under said ideal. I really don't care much about the community, I focus more on the individual. I wish individuals would be more spiritually developed and mentally mature, and while healthy individuals would result in a healthy society (which I do not think we have), I see development as chiefly an individual process and relish the most in that.

[Wildflower]

Wildflower, thanks for the information on Fi. I regard Fi is what I secretly strive to embody, even though it is not my legitimate strength or something others are likely to see in me, it is a part of me such that it is the gate to self-development. Maybe this is true of the tertiary function in general. The creation of the feeling experience and the striving upward toward a spiritual experience is something I do in private. Perhaps a true Fi type would not "strive" toward spiritual experience so much, as that in their most developed state, they may be highly attuned to such experiences. But this is me trying to make use of my immature Fi, most likely. When I was a bit younger, I used to strive more for spiritual experiences, I would meditate, and such, trying to reach that experience. Now, I focus more on what I am doing in my life on a regular basis, and try to find satisfation from that, and if that leads to increased spiritual experience down that road, then that's great. For now, I need to focus on a feeling of wholeness within myself.



My INTJ father was very into spiritual searching and mysticism. It started for him around age 18 from a series of dreams he had. It was very much a private part of his life, not shared with anyone outside of his wife and children.

Is/was there any difficulty in integrating the Fi in with your Te? For me, the emergence of Te has been dramatic and hard to integrate at times for sure.

This is an example of what happens in the Fi dom INFP as regards Te, maybe you can take the information and turn it around to see in yourself what is happening with Fi. This started for me around the ages 30 to 33 and now at 39 stronger than ever. Except for you, Fi would be 3rd function so would come on you earlier, probably during your 20s.


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To find this, go to the pull down menu and go way down and find "Individuation".

Quote:
Individuation

4th period - 35 to 50 years

The INFP's fourth function is extraverted Thinking.

Now you began a discomforting and awkward period, as you were drawn despite yourself toward assertive behavior. Because for the greater part of your life your feelings had taken primary responsibility for your decisions, it was somewhat unsettling to deal with life with more detachment and not from any desire to please or to create harmony around you. You yourself and others were sometimes surprised when your hostile or aggressive behavior signaled your slow ascent to assertiveness.

At times you may have experienced rebelliousness and resentment over your previous submission to domination by others. You were determined to withstand threats to your new freedom, even though you were not entirely happy about the vigor with which you did this. This was also a period of questioning in your life, as you became less vulnerable to the criticisms of others and more forthright in expressing your own. Your new attitudes were manifest to others.



Excerpts taken from From Image to Likeness: A Jungian Path in the Gospel Journeyby W. Harold Grant, Thomas E. Clarke, Mary M. Thompson.

[deicruxified]

I don't understand Fi real well. I read a description but it didn't help much.
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I guess I can think of general examples. I have learned that it's not always important to give my opinion. I have learned that there are some things in life that are worth fighting over and some are not. And sometimes, something on the inside of me rises up in a kind of strong feeling like indignation, and I am compelled to speak up regardless of what I fear the consequences might be. I think that's Fi. Would you think so?
“Sometimes, some things just have to be said.”

i just read the Fi description and somehow i got an idea what it is and if i'm right about what i think about Fi based on this article, then i guess i have a very strong Fi. my Fi happens to be my emo side if not controlled because there are times that my emotions are too intense, i have no idea how to express them so i was thinking probably it's because of my Fi that i tend to be depressed a lot of times. however, in moderation, when i feel the sudden urge of Fi, so as not to drown myself with my emotions, i quickly divert to an activity like jogging or reading a book, etc. because emotions/feelings are out of my comfort zone.

i have never been the "i love you" person when it comes to intimate relationships and i do find it really hard to reciprocate what i feel because i find it difficult to transcribe feelings into words or actions as compared to ideas. if i do show emotions or gestures of affections, most often people misunderstood. one time my ex asked me if i loved him, all i said was, "isn't that enough that i stayed with you for almost a year to verify my emotions?". at that time, i found it hard to say, "yes i did" but the logical aspect of the scenario i found it chicken feed. at the moment i said my piece, i already intuited that he feels me cold but unfortunately it was the easiest way for me to explain how "i felt" at that time.

just my bottle of beer for sharing

* * * deicruxified added to this post, 14 minutes and 42 seconds later... * * *

These are my favorite articles about Fi:

Edited to add Click on "Feeling and Feeling Types" and then go three quarters of the way down this article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), at item C, a very detailed explaination of Fi that people here might find interesting.

This is another good site: Lenore Thompson on Introverted Feeling (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Also this site:

The Introverted Feeling Type (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
this one's quite different. i do agree with the soul/spiritual searching thing however it's more of the buddhistic inner bliss or liberation i am looking for than what or who could understand me... vague? don't worry i can't understand either... however just to catch a little bit of the idea, i think the word "liberation" would best describe my inner desire.

[The Rose]

The Lenore Thompson one depressed me. I mean it really makes me feel bad about myself. She says that when Feeling is your Tertiary preference (as it is with INTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, AND ENTP) as it develops you become a hypocrite because you use it to convince yourself that you're good. She didn't say anything positive! But just logically thinking it through, that can't possibly be actually true, right? How could all those people become hypocrites?

[deicruxified]

The Lenore Thompson one depressed me. I mean it really makes me feel bad about myself. She says that when Feeling is your Tertiary preference (as it is with INTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, AND ENTP) as it develops you become a hypocrite because you use it to convince yourself that you're good. She didn't say anything positive! But just logically thinking it through, that can't possibly be actually true, right? How could all those people become hypocrites?
i think she never found the right words or she just has an ulterior motive against the types mentioned... joke. she could've said, "good self-motivator".. "has his/her own principles"

[toonia]

The Lenore Thompson one depressed me. I mean it really makes me feel bad about myself. She says that when Feeling is your Tertiary preference (as it is with INTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, AND ENTP) as it develops you become a hypocrite because you use it to convince yourself that you're good. She didn't say anything positive! But just logically thinking it through, that can't possibly be actually true, right? How could all those people become hypocrites?
That does sound biased. I am skeptical when morality is applied to MBTI types.

That being said, while I don't care for hypocrisy because it is false and inconsistent (btw: two traits specifically rejected in threads here about natural INTJ dislikes), it is in the end just another human failing. I make plenty of mistakes, so if that happens to be yet another then sorry. What can I say?

[Wildflower]

The Lenore Thompson one depressed me. I mean it really makes me feel bad about myself. She says that when Feeling is your Tertiary preference (as it is with INTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, AND ENTP) as it develops you become a hypocrite because you use it to convince yourself that you're good. She didn't say anything positive! But just logically thinking it through, that can't possibly be actually true, right? How could all those people become hypocrites?

I think that is just explaining the pitfalls of how Fi can develop in an unhealthy way in a Te dom person.

This said about Fi dom and inferior function thinking isn't any more flattering, believe me. I think we all have the potiential to be led astray by inferior functions if they don't remain the lackey to our higher functions:

Negative repressed thinking may also be projected so that these persons may imagine they can know what others are thinking. This may develop into paranoia and into secret scheming rivalries...