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Monte314
01-26-2009, 11:47 AM
Pushy Yanks saved themselves on Titanic

Brits politely queued up for lifeboats while Americans pushed to be first

By Rossella Lorenzi

British passengers on board the sinking Titanic died while politely queuing to get their place on a lifeboat, while Americans pushed their way on, according to new analysis of passenger data.

The Titanic struck an iceberg in the North Atlantic on April 14, 1912, and sank off the Newfoundland Coast within hours. Most did not survive the disaster — 1,517 perished while only 706 survived.

David Savage, a behavioral economist at Queensland University of Technology, Australia, and Bruno Frey, of the University of Zurich, Switzerland, spent more than a year studying survival rates from one of the worst maritime disasters in history.

The aim was to determine whether people reverted to a "survival of the fittest" mentality when it was a matter of life and death.

"The Titanic was built in Great Britain, operated by British subjects, and manned by a British crew. It is to be expected that national ties were activated during the disaster and that the crew would give preference to British subjects, easily identified by their language," the researchers said.

Savage and Frey realized that assumption was off after investigating passenger data.

They found that British passengers, who queued for a place in one of only 20 lifeboats provided for the 2,223 on board, had 10 percent lower chance of survival than any other nationality.

In contrast, Americans, who reportedly elbowed their way to the front of lines, had a 12 percent higher probability of survival than British subjects.
"Be British, boys, be British!" the captain, Edward John Smith, shouted out, according to witnesses.

"Being British" meant to forget mass panic behavior — everyone looking after themselves — and rather follow the social norm of "women and children first."

This social norm was indeed followed on the Titanic, proving that altruism does make a difference in life and death situations.

"Being female rather than male increased the probability of survival between 23.7 and 53.9 percentage points," the researchers wrote in the journal, CESifo Working Paper.

Similarly, children aged 15 and below were 30 percent more likely to survive than passengers aged 51 or more.

"Comparing the survival probability among women, we observe that having a child and being in the reproductive age has strong and robust impact on the survival probability. Having a child also increases the probability of surviving when considering also males," the researchers concluded.
Manners and altruism, aside, social class appeared to have an even stronger influence on who survived the disaster. Ideally, being a female with a child in first class would have produced the best chances for survival.

MaleVolentworld
01-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Maybe the females with children in first class were just closer to the boats.

rara avis
01-26-2009, 01:14 PM
:thinking:

Maybe I really should consider getting a kid, then, to boost my odds...

thod
01-26-2009, 01:22 PM
I would much rather have women and kids in the lifeboat. You never know when you will get horny and child meat is less stringy.

On a more serious note I think that what they are seeing reflect the attitudes of the upper class of the time. The working class, the majority, would never have been able to afford a berth. For such men propriety is everything. They were judged by their peers on their actions, doing the right thing. Failure would lead to ostracism in society and business. Since each of them believed they would survive anyhow, it was better to maintain manners. The American who threw children overboard to ensure his own place would face censure if all had eventually survived.

There seems to be two types of Englishmen to Americans, you are either the tux and black tie type, or the cheery cockney chimney sweep type. This of course comes from the movies. Just as here in England we know that all Americans ride horses with a six gun strapped to their leg and all Chinese are kung fu masters.

Jinxu
01-26-2009, 01:56 PM
Maybe the females with children in first class were just closer to the boats.

I'm guessing you never saw the movie Titanic. The movie show the crew members allowing only women and children in the boat first.

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Jinxu
01-26-2009, 02:05 PM
:thinking:

Maybe I really should consider getting a kid, then, to boost my odds...

You mean like this guy? ;)

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Jinxu added to this post, 0 minutes and 55 seconds later...

I've never seen the film :)

It's a good film. Winner of 11 Academy Awards. :thumbsup:

rara avis
01-26-2009, 02:52 PM
You mean like this guy? ;)

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Billy Zane would be welcome in my lifeboat. :flirt:




If only because he'd be really useful in pushing the Brits out of my way. ;D

MaleVolentworld
01-26-2009, 03:01 PM
The British queue is the greatest invention in history. Just take a look at it, queue, great spelling word. I probably would have been killed on that boat, but it would have been worth it just to have seen Kate Winslet...and to have accidentally brushed up against her :)

We may have died, but at least we died as gentlemen :)

Sliderule
01-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Death by politeness, I can picture the scene now.

Englishman, "Why excuse me sir you seem to have cut ahead of me, perhaps you didn't notice there is a waiting line."

American, "Fuck you."

Englishman, "Well I suppose there are plenty of boats for everyone, it would be rude to make you move now that you're there."

How things have changed...

rara avis
01-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Sliderule, your posts have a remarkably different voice to them, since you got all cleaned up. You sound so... suave. lol

Lucid
01-26-2009, 06:56 PM
I question the objectivity of both the author of this article and the person doing the study. In addition, I question how reliable such a study can be. And thirdly, I question the wisdom of politeness when it comes to matters of survival.

TheLastMohican
01-27-2009, 07:34 AM
Do we admire the British for this, or ridicule them as fools?

schwartzie
01-27-2009, 07:56 AM
I suspect that the results are probably accurate, and reflect the values of grownups, then and now. Every damaged child is your child; every threatened beauty, your own...

It is an interesting area of research--whether and how attributes toward social altruism have been successfully bred into us over the aeons... I've seen research, for example, postulating that loss of appetite in times of despair or stress is born from life on the savanna, where the breeding group is more likely to have survivors of drought and starvation if some group members step back and let the members most likely to reproduce (children and young women) eat first...

rara avis
01-27-2009, 08:34 AM
I question the objectivity of both the author of this article and the person doing the study. In addition, I question how reliable such a study can be. And thirdly, I question the wisdom of politeness when it comes to matters of survival.

I doubt Lucid's skepticism.

Monte314
01-27-2009, 08:52 AM
I think I am skeptical of RA's doubt, but I'm not really sure...