Criticisms from an ENFJ....

[tubaglue]

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got:

"Who you are seems to be very different than the person you portray yourself as to the rest of the world. You seem like everything you say and do is contrived, like everything has to be witty, cool, or charming."

I responded with a few questions and possible explanations and got:

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

No real question, I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on what this person had to say. On one hand I'm a little offended, on the other hand not too offended because most of it is true. I just feel as if it is intended as a personal attack (even though I know it's not). Or, maybe I'm just feeling that way because she hit a little too close to the mark. I don't know. This whole conversation I've started with her is fascinating. Share some insight please.

[The Rose]

Well... even so, it probably hurts a little. Seems awfully blunt and a little brutal. In the end, we're all just doing the best we can, and that includes you.

It sounds a little resentful to me. Does it sound that way to you? Did you hurt this person's feelings?

When I was young, the same things and worse could have been said about me. And still, if someone wanted to see me that way, nothing would really prevent them from it. A lot of what people see in other's is what they see in themselves. Some of it may be true, and some of it may not be true.

I'm sorry that you got that 2 by 4 upside the head. You could use it as a motivator for change though. I've had my share of brutal remarks on my shortcomings! If there's anything you think you need to change, then do.

Bottom line though, I'm sorry you're hurting.

[blueback]

I wouldn't suggest you put too much weight on any one opinion. There are just too many variables. She could have been thinking about a specific incident, she could have had a hard time coming up with the right words, she could have been projecting onto you, etc.

However, if several people say the same thing then you should take it seriously. I suggest you just catalogue her points and file them away to be compared to new points from other people as they come up. If you start to see a pattern, then you have some useful information.

[GOD]

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got:

"Who you are seems to be very different than the person you portray yourself as to the rest of the world. You seem like everything you say and do is contrived, like everything has to be witty, cool, or charming."

I responded with a few questions and possible explanations and got:

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."




So, is she right? ;D

Don't forget, some of the things she is saying are just interpersonal based and not necessarily related to any group type trait.

She might have a point though; do you "try to be something"? It’s generally easier to stick to "I'm haughty, sarcastic, intelligent, and dependable person" it works well; women think "well at least he's being genuine".


You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time.


Classic, abuse like that is almost sexy. Made me laugh. She's quite bright, but likely to be a real pain in the butt...the worst type.

I guess she's hot and you're taking a verbal beating from her in some bizzare mating attempt to win her over? :thumbsup:

[Wildflower]

It just sounds like a typical ExFJ reaction to an INT type. I would take it with a grain of salt and not give it any more weight than the opinions of anyone else who replies.

[stasis]

No real question, I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on what this person had to say. On one hand I'm a little offended, on the other hand not too offended because most of it is true. I just feel as if it is intended as a personal attack (even though I know it's not). Or, maybe I'm just feeling that way because she hit a little too close to the mark. I don't know. This whole conversation I've started with her is fascinating. Share some insight please.
I'd begin by observing that it's relatively common (id est 'normal') for people to do some active cultivating of their symbolic selves (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). If one were being extremely cynical, one might negatively characterize that behavior as being "contrived". What's closer to the truth, I think, is that people tend to internalize these identities and thereby attain some degree of authenticity over time. If you think that's all we have here, then I wouldn't worry about it. Something is up with her.

That said, the tone of the reply almost makes it sound like this person is trying to diagnose you with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She doesn't seem to simply accuse you of routinely projecting an image, but rather of projecting a false and unrealistic image that's strongly divergent from who she says you actually are. And not only that, but your false image is calculated to be abruptly provocative. You go on to say these observations may be close to the truth. I'd want to ask you, then, if much of this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) sounds familiar. And if it does not, again, she might be offering you what amounts to psychobabble - for whatever reason.

How well does this person know you, anyway?

[logan235711]

First off, I can't comment too much on these opinions of hers because I don't which ones are true about you and not. In general however:
It just sounds like a typical ExFJ reaction to an INT type.
I agree. INTJs do seem mysterious to many NFs who don't meet the type and haven't had experience with them frequently. Overtime many ENFJs tend to just come down judging when they can't figure someone out. The J causes them to come to closure more quickly than a TJ does because their Fs mean they can become directly offended more and take things more subjectively when NTs usually do not tend to put things that way. INTJs being more blunt can quicken this manner. So her F reaction sparks with her J to cause her to draw conclusions that might seem more harsh and maybe even far off the mark even tho she is so confident.

Lastly,
I just feel as if it is intended as a personal attack (even though I know it's not). Or, maybe I'm just feeling that way because she hit a little too close to the mark. I don't know.
I know this might not help, but I think these opinions are a bit personal. Being an FJ, she has come to these conclusions from her personal interaction with you--so she does consider them to be personal because that is how she received them in her eyes (i.e. she is returning what she sees along with her F). However, I wouldn't take it too personally if a lot of it seems off. Because, as mentioned, she judged far too quickly as many of them tend to do--so you should realize that if she actually had taken the time to consult you about these things rather than judge you without any input from you about her judgments, that many of her conclusions would most likely be different.

[niffer]

Well hey, you asked for it. It's just the way you are. If it doesn't bug you much, don't bother trying to change anything.

Basically, as an NF, she thinks that everyone must be motivated by their feelings. She is overanalyzing a bit. My ENFJ friend is like that too...sometimes she doesn't realize that not everyone gives a crap, not everyone needs to, and sometimes when she cannot comprehend complex human nature/personality-related things like this she needs to know when to accept that things are just the way they are..

[tubaglue]

Well, I think it's generally true that I'm contrived in the way I go about life, so I believe that to be an accurate assumption on her part. I like to have a plan. I'm a fairly open person when asked something directly, but otherwise I don't say much about myself and generally let people make their own assumptions (which appears to be backfiring) so I guess they may be coming to conclusions that are completely false leading them to believe something about my personality that is false.

The two things that stuck out to me were that I'm aware I'm a little concieted (I would call it confident), and that I don't want to appear as such, AND that I'm not very good at hiding this fact despite my best efforts. The other is I'm aware I'm aloof (but I was hoping I wasn't coming off as a prick.) Those were pretty much on the mark.

All in all I'm not putting a ton of weight in her comments. I think they're more assumptions by someone who doesn't know me well enough to make these kind of blanket assumptions. I also think the post GOD made earlier might be right on the mark. She is hot, she is smart, and she is currently being a pain in my butt. But I think I kind of like it a little bit. I think that's for another post though.

[Meyer]

Sounds to me like so many type descriptions that say how we may appear to others. I don't think she is able to accept much beyond her own personal views and understandings, which in my humble opinion seem quite limited.

[The Rose]

It just sounds like a typical ExFJ reaction to an INT type. I would take it with a grain of salt and not give it any more weight than the opinions of anyone else who replies.I agree.

I'd begin by observing that it's relatively common (id est 'normal') for people to do some active cultivating of their symbolic selves (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). If one were being extremely cynical, one might negatively characterize that behavior as being "contrived". What's closer to the truth, I think, is that people tend to internalize these identities and thereby attain some degree of authenticity over time. If you think that's all we have here, then I wouldn't worry about it. Something is up with her.

That said, the tone of the reply almost makes it sound like this person is trying to diagnose you with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She doesn't seem to simply accuse you of routinely projecting an image, but rather of projecting a false and unrealistic image that's strongly divergent from who she says you actually are. And not only that, but your false image is calculated to be abruptly provocative. You go on to say these observations may be close to the truth. I'd want to ask you, then, if much of this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) sounds familiar. And if it does not, again, she might be offering you what amounts to psychobabble - for whatever reason.

How well does this person know you, anyway?I agree. Very interesting perspective.

[deicruxified]

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got:

"Who you are seems to be very different than the person you portray yourself as to the rest of the world. You seem like everything you say and do is contrived, like everything has to be witty, cool, or charming."

I responded with a few questions and possible explanations and got:

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

my t doesn't work that much yet however i do intuit she might be envious of you or just plain insecure for some reason. probably it has something to do with some common ground you are working with and you seem to excel on that part for some reason she finds uncanny and can never grasp and she probably thinks there's no way she could level with you. i'm not sure though if she would like to reveal her insecurities but i do suggest you try to identify what seems to be her issues then use it as a jump off point to constructing a bridge to get to her (if you want).

or probably i'm just over reading...

:edit:

i do find this strange about exfj's. they seem to want to know the entire you and when they don't they sour grape and stereotype. i got a different case with an infj who thought i was a hallucinated slacker at first then i blew him off after he got to know the real me. now he sees me like a rubix cube which he has to solve in 10 seconds or less.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

I am sorry but I need to take a different take on this whole thing. Her criticisms of you are just too classic. You could walk up to anyone and say "You act like you don't care what other people think but deep down you do." This is a stupid insult. To some degree everyone cares what other people think of them. No one is completely insular. We are all social creatures. We interact with people. What Stasis said about symbolic interaction seems completely plausible and probable. Her criticisms, while seemingly logical or rational, are in fact quite emotional. I doubt your personality is 100% unilateral. And so I doubt you are 100% contrived. Her argument formulates personalty as a sort of mask that you present to the world. While many people think of the personality as a mask we wear, I think this perspective is problematic. Quite frankly, it sounds too Freudian (and hey I love Freud). Anyway, personality isn't just a mask because personality is not something separate and beside ourselves. When someone uses this construct in their criticisms of you, it is easy to feel inauthentic.

[Rei]

I just comes down to...
so... DO you care?

For me, most of the time I really don't. What I build myself up for, is the rare times that we meet someone whose opinion is worth caring about. INTJs are simply very selective about their people.
Having everything planned to perfection is pretty much an irresistible compulsion. Most of the time it is very useful/efficient, but I admit it takes a bit of fun out of my life. But again, she hit the mark, but she doesn't understand an INTJs reasoning behind it.

IMO, she just sounds like she's jealous or disbelieving of how well you've got things planned and under control. Just because of her accusing rather than understanding tone.

You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it.
There are two ways to look at what she is describing here. The way she does it, and that you really aren't conceited but seem that way.

I wouldn't take the reply too personally. It is not something that someone who knows me well would say. It is however, the general population's impression of INTJs :blank:


Now I feel like doing the FB thing. I've had the application forever, just never got around to asking people to do it.

[The Many]

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got:

"Who you are seems to be very different than the person you portray yourself as to the rest of the world. You seem like everything you say and do is contrived, like everything has to be witty, cool, or charming."

I responded with a few questions and possible explanations and got:

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

No real question, I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on what this person had to say. On one hand I'm a little offended, on the other hand not too offended because most of it is true. I just feel as if it is intended as a personal attack (even though I know it's not). Or, maybe I'm just feeling that way because she hit a little too close to the mark. I don't know. This whole conversation I've started with her is fascinating. Share some insight please.

An ENFJ complains about an INTJ being witty and planned? That's more or less what INTJs are. And conceited too, whilst at it. Just as I don't see what's wrong with being witty or planned, I don't see what's wrong with being selfish. After all, all actions are necessarily selfish in so far as that they are what the self considers itself best off worth doing (even if that includes helping other people).

Essentially it's really all coming down to her being an idealist who misunderstands reality, and dislikes you for being yourself.

[Firelie]

Man, I wish I had some friends that were honest enough to tell me what they actually thought of me. I'd be more than happy to take harsh criticism over the lazy "You're cool" answer.

[Rei]

Man, I wish I had some friends that were honest enough to tell me what they actually thought of me. I'd be more than happy to take harsh criticism over the lazy "You're cool" answer.

Very true... plus, I don't think I'd take it as harsh criticism in the first place.

[Maverick]

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

I'm sure you have sufficient confidence to ignore what somebody else thinks they know about you. She's not in you mind and the only way she could be able to infer your motivations is through the projection of her own persona. Her criticism says alot more about her than about you.

Have you hurt her feelings in the past? Or could she have reasons to envy you? I think you should just brush her off and not give her any attention anymore.

[toonia]

You say she is right about a lot of it? Is that how you think/feel about it? Only you know.

My first response to criticisms that seem out of the blue is to first ask if the one offering the criticism has those qualities they are projecting onto me. Is the criticizer credible? It's common for people to find their own flaws in others. Second I think about their view. Are they projecting what their motivations would have to be if they were operating in the manner they have observed? I don't know a great deal about ENFJs, but I had a mentor who tested as one. His advice to me was to observe the behavior of successful people and to practice emulating that in the mirror. This is not something that comes naturally to me, but evidently it did for him. I am just wondering if your ENFJ friend might herself be "projecting an image, appearing to have it all together, trying to be cool or charming, is somewhat contrived", etc. and is therefore more likely to see those qualities in others, whether or not they are present.

How much of this observation is her, and how much is you? In most scenarios it is a combination and depending on individual bias it can be heavily weighted in either direction.

[banzai]

Haha... I've found that the problem is not with my personality and people's issues with it, but instead with the fact that a lot of people easily forget the type of situations and environments that I dominate.

In many peoples' world devoid of deep thinking and true ambition, I can understand why many would dare consider a socialite over myself with such ease.

The solution is to simply remind others of their own shortcomings. It's about time we start hammering on the insecurities that "normal" people have, where we often excel.

An acquaintance of mine called me socially inept over dinner several weeks back. I responded with... "hey man, that's cool if you think that, but if I were you I'd be more concerned about my own lack of goals, marketable skills, and experience... maybe if you were up to snuff there then I would take more credence to your opinion. I think it's super that you care so much about what people think of you and you are good at catering to that, though"

[Paul V]

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got:

"Who you are seems to be very different than the person you portray yourself as to the rest of the world. You seem like everything you say and do is contrived, like everything has to be witty, cool, or charming."

I responded with a few questions and possible explanations and got:

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together. And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things. As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it. You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

No real question, I just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on what this person had to say. On one hand I'm a little offended, on the other hand not too offended because most of it is true. I just feel as if it is intended as a personal attack (even though I know it's not). Or, maybe I'm just feeling that way because she hit a little too close to the mark. I don't know. This whole conversation I've started with her is fascinating. Share some insight please.

My mother is an ENFJ, and she's uttered similar (and much harsher) words to me.

She's correct. I do project that façade around me. And I do it on purpose. Otherwise, people will trample you and push you around.

I wouldn't take that personally. I would simply say "Uh-huh. Got a problem with that?"

[elsdfr]

An acquaintance of mine called me socially inept over dinner several weeks back.

Is that the same as "socially retarded". I got that a few years back and it really stuck with me. I can see why now as I was never really willing to conform to the group idea if I didn't want to. Either that or if I was bored or uninterested I would just do my own thing, most people don't understand that and if they'd ask questions I'd get defensive as I was incredibly private. That was early twenties though and I did't know any better. Once I could see how it was effecting my relationships though I decided to at least try and do something about it.

I guess what I'm saying is you got what you asked for and finding people to give their honest self analyse is quite hard I've found. Analyse the hell out of it if you want but in the end only you know if its true and or a good/bad thing. Some change is possible and probably for the better. It honestly felt like a bit of a "cross roads" for me as I matured. I could either see myself just being "me" or at least trying for the sake or myself and others.

Okay getting a bit soppy and I probably need my own TV show but its my two cents, hopefully it relates to the original post as well.

Plus trying to "change" doesn't mean becoming someone else. I'm still the same person I've just tried to be more tolerant (not even sure if thats the right word) of others and social situations. Perhaps being less "anal" about everything is the right way?

I'd also be interested to see how much Introversion and the INTJ effects their social acceptance level. Personally If I'm around people I know or am comfortable I can been seen as very Extroverted no doubt. However without that security I won't say a word, not sure why I just can't.

Well if there was a point I think I've lost it now, anyway GL.

[Hdier]

"No compliment or criticism, just observation. You seem to be projecting an image that you're philosophical, profound, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and like you more or less have everything together.

I always try to project that image, so that people at school (teachers and students alike) won't bug me. I don't interact with anyone else who is not in my immediate family on a daily basis, so I really don't care about them.

And just because no one's called you cool or charming doesn't mean that it doesn't seem like you're trying to be those things.

That doesn't really apply to me, because trying to be those would attract to much attention (though privately I do, and other peoples input is invalid because they don't see that part of me).

As far as the contrition goes, it does seem like you have a plan for everything, practically for every step you take and every word you say. It seems calculated and almost cold. You're conceited, and you try not to come across as such, but you don't do a very good job of hiding it.

I do have a plan for pretty much everything, and I don't even bother to try and hide my conceition. It doesn't seem very insulting to me.

You're aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time. I feel like you want people to think that you don't care what they think, but it seems like you've spent so much time calculating this character that you play that you have to be doing it for everyone else's benefit."

I love playing the Hdier (used user name for security purposes) that the people in public know. It's so much fun, and I do seem "aloof and come across as kind of a prick a lot of the time". The fun part is figuring out exactly how to be aloof and come of as a prick. :maniacal laughter:


(the reason that I keep people at arms length is three-fold:

I like being in control of a situation

I don't want people being to close to me until I've OK-d them.

People have a healthy respect for what will happen to them if they try to push me around)

[pensivemuse7]

So as an ENFJ, this is what I think: (mind you, I don't consider myself like most ENFJs)

When I read that, I think she does wants to tell you the truth about you, something that no one else may have never tried to tell you and perhaps no one has been able to figure you out except maybe for her and perhaps other INTJs.

The difference between her and I is that she may have taken it personally and that is the reason for her brutal honesty. If I had said that, it would be because I was simply stating a fact, or the opinion of what others probably think and not what I think. In a way, saying those things (if true about you) could be another way of saying, "I know who you are truly, and most people don't". Perhaps she is establishing a special connection with you? As harsh as those comments may seem, she might not think you care anyway. I understand INTJs better than I think other non-INTJ people (at least the INTJs i know). I may state those things, but its not personal. I just like stating the brutal truth.

[suzyk]

Sounds like things I do. I do project an image of myself in reality, a cold, distant, aloof and a loner type. But I don't mind talking to that random person on the street, as long as they're the ones to start the conversation. I know that most people aren't creating any character and portraying it, it just comes naturally to most INTJ's. You could be cold and calculating on the outside, and be soft and kind on the inside. I'm conceited at times (in my head), but God forbid I ever act like it on purpose. I agree with what she said. I do make an image to most people, like I'm some totally profound/philosophical person, for my rep and fame. I like doing so. So maybe I am insecure, and maybe this doesn't apply to other INTJ's. It just shows what another person perceives an INTJ as.

[sriv]

That pretty much describes me. And you know what else? I would rather have it honestly like that than disguised and dulled. Everything there applies to me but the only difference is I do a better job hiding my conceit. That is the kind of criticism I enjoy from others.

[eclecticjoker]

I'd listen to pensivemuse7. Reading that, although the phrasing is a bit ambiguous in terms of whether she's being honest or "brutally honest", I have the feeling that she's just trying to communicate, and isn't trying to hurt you or tear you down. If anything, I get the feeling that she's trying to tear down a bit of a wall that she believes you have in order to help you out a bit, especially because you did ask for input.

[NeonTetra]

Hmmm, I'd hadn't seen this thread before.

So I asked for a little anonymous honesty from my friends via Facebook just to see what happened. This is the first one of any substance and I have my suspicions that it's from an ENFJ female friend of mine. This is what I got...

1. How well does this person know you? How well do you know this person?
2. Did your other friends' assessments follow along the same lines?
3. Perhaps the impersonal medium of facebook allowed your friend to be a little more honest that what s/he would normally be? Would you have preferred her/him to lie to you?
4. Does this person have opportunities for more insight into your personality than others?

You've already admitted what this person said is true. Perhaps it rankles because it wasn't far off the mark?

To INTJs generally: Why is it surprising that other people can see through you? Why do you think you're that difficult to read?

I've got three good INTJ friends (which is why I came here in the first place) and I don't think what this ENFJ said is too far off the mark from the general INTJ personality. Of course, there's individual variation so that's a given. My INTJ friends usually act like they have everything together and all figured out and I have no valuable input to give them. Notice I said act, because they've got it no more figured out than most other people, but I think are better able to pull of the appearance of having it together by projecting "don't question me" vibe. I'm basically patted on the head or kept around as entertainment (not really that, we're genuinely friends so I'm not being maligned or anything), but I know when I tell them the truth about themselves they know what I'm saying is valid and true and they shut up and listen!

But I swear I notice this tendency in them to have my opinion and evaluate their other friends. One always wants me to meet any new possible love interest she has in her life and so my INTJ guy friend. I don't know, I'll ask did you ask your other friends, and they'll say no they haven't. Why act like my opinion doesn't matter and yet always ask me for it? This is frustrating when dealing with my INTJ friends.

It just sounds like a typical ExFJ reaction to an INT type. I would take it with a grain of salt and not give it any more weight than the opinions of anyone else who replies.

BOO!! :thumbsdown:

More superior BS. :bomb:

[fINTiP]

....And I read the whole thread again.

-_-

My post count is never going to go up if I keep doing this on a forum of this scale.

I don't even really have anything to say, except to echo the "you know yourself best" line. You know if she's right. You say it stings, trust your "N".

Then again, maybe I do have something worth asking; what's up with the "don't question me" vibe? I know only one INTJ, who recently, in his old age, has gone INFJ (which blew his family out of the water; they're all at a loss at this sharp philosophy-major-gone-top-software-engineer becoming interested in how people feel), and he's very wise and mature. He loves questions, but tends to not act like he knows it all, like most INTJ's seem to (according to stereotype) project. He just likes to take many perspectives and narrow them down intelligently and quickly.

I feel that that is what the INTJ might look like when fully realized; am I missing something?

[Rei]

Then again, maybe I do have something worth asking; what's up with the "don't question me" vibe? I know only one INTJ, who recently, in his old age, has gone INFJ (which blew his family out of the water; they're all at a loss at this sharp philosophy-major-gone-top-software-engineer becoming interested in how people feel), and he's very wise and mature. He loves questions, but tends to not act like he knows it all, like most INTJ's seem to (according to stereotype) project. He just likes to take many perspectives and narrow them down intelligently and quickly.

I feel that that is what the INTJ might look like when fully realized; am I missing something?

I think wisdom must be taken into account here. After FINALLY reading Pride and Prejudice and analyzing my fellow INTJ Darcy, I noticed that some INTJs don't notice that they're seeing things completely one-sided. It's not that we refuse to... we just don't realize we're not seeing it. It's just a barrier we have to break... get out of that, "No no no, YOU don't see MY way; not the other way around." when really neither parties are understanding each other.

On my good days, or when I know I don't know enough to take a stance, I hear everyone's perspectives, and then pick out the things I agree with from each one. On my bad days, I can't understand why people could possibly think differently. I really have to constantly remind myself, "I don't know enough (to judge)."