Do I Have To Love My Family?

[Rudy]

And if so, why? This question was inspired by Sesquipedalian's question concerning his ESFx sister, and his difficulties in loving her.

To me, being related to someone is a completely meaningless thing. I love my mother, not because she's my mother, but because she has always done her best for me. I love one of my step-brothers because he's warm and friendly with me, has values I can appreciate, and helps out his friends and family as best he can. I do not love another step-brother because he's a dishonest mooch. I do not love one of my younger sisters (ESFP herself,) because she's manipulative, selfish and has no conception of gratitude nor individual responsibility. I do not love one of my grandmothers because she's a witch. I loved the other one quite dearly.

When I explain these things to most anyone they say, "But, they're family!" So what? I would like to know why I should care about someone for this reason. For me, "family" is defined by action, not by blood.

Thoughts?

[SRVcardsfan27]

I don't love most of my family. And at family gatherings I am quite uncomfortable and really don't want to be there, but since the family members that I am close to would be hurt if I didn't, I go. I love my immediate family and grandparents, but that's about it. Two of my uncles are cool, too.

Loving someone just because its tradition or because you're "supposed" to isn't the INTJ way.

[Pandemonium]

The simplicity of the world is that you do not have to like people you do not like. Reasoning is more acceptable in most cases.

[Rachel45]

"Family is defined by action,not blood" Thank you for this perfect description of how I believe it really should be when it comes to family. All of my life I have struggled with this rather misplaced sense of loyalty and duty to family members who have been very disrespectful to me. I have taken the INTJ propensity towards loyalty beyond the rational. Lately this is becoming less of an issue as I break free from their limited views and conditional affections.

[Freedom Geek]

No decent means nothing, only actions.

[Noehelia]

My question is "Can you not love your child?". I am not talking for indifferent parents who lack from the beginning their parental filter but for those who loved their child when it was young and it got developed into a grown up who rationally they wouldn't love (and I am not talking here for something extreme like a serial killer or such behavior).

[elsdfr]

I'm pretty sure immediate family will love you unconditionally so unless you have proof otherwise I don't see why you would want to sabotage it?

Plus your siblings will mature and change so you might get along better later on. I remember my younger ENFP sister and I didn't speak to each other throughout our teens... I'm not really sure why but we just knew to stay out of each others way. These days we get along really well and I'm glad we stayed in touch.

[Rudy]

My question is "Can you not love your child?". I am not talking for indifferent parents who lack from the beginning their parental filter but for those who loved their child when it was young and it got developed into a grown up who rationally they wouldn't love (and I am not talking here for something extreme like a serial killer or such behavior).

I don't know, to be honest. I would have to get back to you when I have children. I recognize that there is a limit to how much rationality can overcome biological imperatives.

I suspect the answer is that it would be much more difficult to not love my child than to not love any other relation. Certainly I would be helpless in this regard until they were fully grown, at the very least. Even after they had reached adulthood, it would take an awful lot to make me stop loving them. It would not be completely unconditional, but the conditions would be much more relaxed than they would with anyone else.




I'm pretty sure immediate family will love you unconditionally so unless you have proof otherwise I don't see why you would want to sabotage it.

I guess this comes down to what we mean by love. It's quite likely that my bitchy grandmother and my self-centered irresponsible sister love me, as far as they are concerned (I doubt the one step-brother does.) But, if this does not translate into behavior, what worth is it?

Plus your siblings will mature and change so you might get along better later on. I remember my younger ENFP sister basically didn't speak to each other for throughout our teens... I'm not really sure why but we just knew to stay out of each others way. These days we get along really well and I'm glad we stayed in touch.

I am 24, and the sister I am referring to is 22. I sincerely doubt that our relationship will change significantly from this point on. She is not merely going through a selfish teenager phase. That being said, I am not, and have not, intentionally burnt bridges with her. When I say that I do not love her, it simply means that I am not willing to make the same sacrifices for her, or willing to put much effort into spending time with her. I don't *tell* her that I don't love her, though I probably would if asked. I'm simply not going to try and treat her as a loved one when I do not feel that way at all.

[Tigress]

Even if you don't love them, treating them with respect for the sake of the family you DO care about seems like a good idea. It appears like you're doing that, so kudos.

[Tabemashoo]

I can't talk for everyone, but personally, I can't not love my family, no matter what they do. I didn't come to that realization until someone in my family that I thought I hated died. Sad way to learn the lesson.

[Rudy]

Even if you don't love them, treating them with respect for the sake of the family you DO care about seems like a good idea. It appears like you're doing that, so kudos.

Yes, this is pretty much the reason I am not colder towards my sister than I am. I love my mother, as said, so I do it for her sake.





rudyhenkel added to this post, 1 minutes and 29 seconds later...

I can't talk for everyone, but personally, I can't not love my family, no matter what they do. I didn't come to that realization until someone in my family that I thought I hated died. Sad way to learn the lesson.

Well, my grandfather who I didn't love died a year ago. I still didn't love him. When my grandfather and grandmother whom I did love died, I was devastated, so I definitely know the difference. Don't know what to tell you.





rudyhenkel added to this post, 1 minutes and 8 seconds later...

"Family is defined by action,not blood" Thank you for this perfect description of how I believe it really should be when it comes to family. All of my life I have struggled with this rather misplaced sense of loyalty and duty to family members who have been very disrespectful to me. I have taken the INTJ propensity towards loyalty beyond the rational. Lately this is becoming less of an issue as I break free from their limited views and conditional affections.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, you should not be giving loyalty towards those who continually fail to give it to you in return.

Where is your avatar from?

[Necrosis]

Not to steal this thread on another topic, but I'm having that situation with my sister currently. She is 18 and pregnant with a b/f no one in the family has ever liked. Long story short, I know it wasn't an accident but my family doesn't (won't explain how). Regardless, my mom has worked her *** off raising myself, my older brother, and my younger sister and now my mom is being dragged into this situation with my sister. My sister is being selfish, childish, and completly irresponsible making most of the tasks my mom's job. I have yet to acknolwedge my sister since the day I found out and yet I am being attacked by my family constantly saying, but she is your sister you have to love her and she 'needs' you. I beg to differ, just because she is my sister doesn't mean anything. I am not going to help someone who is being selfish and irresponsible, yet then begs for help when things become overbearing. I will never disprect her, but I will not sacrifice for her the way I would for my mom. Just my .02c

[Rachel45]

My avatar is from the avatar gallery here on the forum..I agree with you about the whole loyalty thing...it has taken me a long time to put the dutiful daughter/sister role into perspective..

[penguin]

I have a non-loving relationship with my family and I reject to act loving on the basis of blood connection. That does not mean I hate them of course, it is more indifference I suppose. It took me a while and several therapy sessions to finally admit this to myself. I was depressed thinking that there was something wrong with me, that I had an attachment disorder or incapacitiy to care for family members, just because I did not miss them, feel their absence or wonder what they are doing. As long as I know they are healthy and do not need money I do not feel much affection towards them.

To make my case clear; I came to US from Europe as an international student at age 17 and avoided going back home for nearly a decade. The only person I allowed to come and visit me was my mother for my college graduation, only because I felt I owed them that, for covering my 1st year tution for me. I found happiness and peace of mind away from them.

For me to "love" someone, their actions towards me and their surroundings need to trigger a positive feeling. I do not feel that towards my parents. In fact, my older half-sister (she is 10 years older than me) triggers very negative feelings, I would avoid anybody who has her personality traits. I made an effort to go back and visit them 2 years ago because I ran out of excuses. The trip caused me much anxiety because I constantly had to act loving towards them and had to ignore my older sister's neurotic acts. I pretty much accepted that I am not a family-oriented person but the guilt is still there for not being able to love them.

[noueux]

No, I don't think you have to, I certainly don't love my one living grandmother, who treated my mother like crap and has, since my birth, not made any effort to be a part of my life. I don't love all the strangers in my extended family.

At the same time, I think there's something immensely powerful about this small group of people with whom I spent all my formative years. My sister went away to college when I was in elementary school, and came back an insane evangelist who eventually cut ties with our family because we weren't "saved" (even though when we're at home, we all go to church every Sunday). I don't understand her. I don't appreciate her philosophy or belief system. I hate that she broke my father's heart by telling him she couldn't talk to him anymore, and right before he died. But I can't stop hoping that whatever she chooses, she manages to make for herself a happy life.

[Rudy]

I hate that she broke my father's heart by telling him she couldn't talk to him anymore, and right before he died. But I can't stop hoping that whatever she chooses, she manages to make for herself a happy life.

You're much more forgiving than me, then. If my sister did something like that to my mother, she would earn my undying enmity.

[Nikita]

No. The way I like to think about family is, if these people were not related to me, would I choose to be around them? Leaving love aside (since I have trouble feeling it at all other than in relation to animals, children, and the global humanity), do I even like them? When you think about them in this light, it really changes your perception of your relatives. I feel no biological obligations to family. The fact is, family is comprised of people. That's it, people, plain and simple. What kind of people are they? That's the question.

[ElstonGunn]

In the same way that love involves action to some extent, I think love also involves some degree of choice. That being said, I think it's kind of selfish in itself to decide not to love someone simply because they never did anything especially great for you. It seems shallow to me to base love off of a "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?" mentality.

I think it's important to give people (family members, in this case) as much of a reason as you can, from your standpoint, to change their behavior if they do things that bother you. In other words, if you don't leave the option of forgiveness available to them, they have no reason to seek it from you. Not that giving them the option means that they'll necessarily take it, but removing it makes it that much more unlikely.

I also try not to take myself so seriously as to limit the only points of view that are valid to me to be my own. There is always more than one way of looking at things. If you cut someone out of your life because you disagree with them, it's possible that you're actually doing that person a favor as far as they're concerned.

[Rudy]

I also try not to take myself so seriously as to limit the only points of view that are valid to me to be my own. There is always more than one way of looking at things. If you cut someone out of your life because you disagree with them, it's possible that you're actually doing that person a favor as far as they're concerned.

If I'm doing them a favor, then it's a win-win, right?

In all seriousness, my not loving my grandmother, to take just one example, has nothing to do with her not doing anything for me. It has a lot to do how shitty and inconsiderate she is towards my mother.

[oliclay]

Rudy I agree with you. I'm glad to see that must be an INTJ thing. When relatives die I contemplate whether I'm sad because I knew them, because I love them, or because they're related to me genetically and therefore it means I'm probably susceptible to death as well and I'm just one more closer in the lineage to it.

[ratlegs]

I don't think you do, I don't really know or care about most of my family.

[Berzeger]

Yeah, I was about to ask the same. I love my mother because of exactly the same reason you mentioned. I don't like my grandma, because she is - exactly as yours - a witch. I don't really see any reason to actually have any family, for me it's only people I have to live with (until I'm old enough to move out).
Speaking of which, I have to admin, I call my best friend (IxTJ) brother (not gangsta slang "bro", lol), because he's one the best people I've ever got to know in my whole life.

(OT: Why the heck do I always keep clicking on "Report" instead of "Reply"?)

[karenk]

I don't love my parents. Also, I don't have any respect for my mother. I keep in touch because it's the only family I have. If they died it would affect me and I would be sad. However it wouldn't be because I loved them.

[Henry]

And if so, why? This question was inspired by Sesquipedalian's question concerning his ESFx sister, and his difficulties in loving her.

To me, being related to someone is a completely meaningless thing. I love my mother, not because she's my mother, but because she has always done her best for me. I love one of my step-brothers because he's warm and friendly with me, has values I can appreciate, and helps out his friends and family as best he can. I do not love another step-brother because he's a dishonest mooch. I do not love one of my younger sisters (ESFP herself,) because she's manipulative, selfish and has no conception of gratitude nor individual responsibility. I do not love one of my grandmothers because she's a witch. I loved the other one quite dearly.

When I explain these things to most anyone they say, "But, they're family!" So what? I would like to know why I should care about someone for this reason. For me, "family" is defined by action, not by blood.

Thoughts?

To a certain extent I think you need to make reasonable sacrifices to get along with family if you want to be happy; I don't know anyone who has a poor relationship with their family that is really happy or well adjusted. Then again, this is INTJ "BUT MY WEAKNESSES AREN'T WEAKNESSES THEY'RE JUST MEH BEIN INTJ" central.

I beg to differ, just because she is my sister doesn't mean anything. I am not going to help someone who is being selfish and irresponsible, yet then begs for help when things become overbearing. I will never disprect her, but I will not sacrifice for her the way I would for my mom. Just my .02c

Some people think that all criticism and dislike of others is really criticism of ourselves and recognizing in the other qualities we have and don't like. I wonder what those same people would say about your post?

[Berzeger]

Some people think that all criticism and dislike of others is really criticism of ourselves and recognizing in the other qualities we have and don't like.

Yeah, most people are weird...

[Phyconaut]

well I have never trusted my parents since age 10 (21 currently) and well if they dropped over dead id just keep up with what i was doing.

Love for the sake of genetics is foolishness.

[brainysmurf]

... When I explain these things to most anyone they say, "But, they're family!" So what? I would like to know why I should care about someone for this reason. For me, "family" is defined by action, not by blood. Thoughts?

I love my family, but there are a few family members who I don't like much (even though I love them). Does that sound strange?

[Arminius]

It is complicated. I believe you certainly have a duty to family, which tends to mirror ones behavior towards loved ones. The issue is further confused because it is common to feel love for family. I wouldn't say you have to love family, but the nature of the matter tends to lead to love.

For example, I definitely love my immediate family, ie parents and sister, and I have always got on well with them. Things get more tenuous for me outside of immediate family. Out of my grandparents, the only one I really loved was my maternal grandfather. I only met my paternal grandfather once, just before he died, so I have no real opinion either way about him. Both grandmothers outlived their husbands and were manipulative, spiteful old bats. I felt no real sorrow at either of their deaths, despite helping care for both before they died. Out of three uncles, I have a positive opinion towards two of them, and the third I hate(he basically abandoned his wife and kids). My cousins I either like or don't know well.

In general, my attitude is one of duty. Help family even if you don't like them. If they ask for advise, give it, and counsel them towards good ways. If they have done something extreme to warrant your enmity, cut them off to an extent, but if they abandon whatever behaviors that caused the rift and seek reconciliation, forgive them. Blood is blood.

[Deliberator]

No you don't have to. In fact, you don't have to ever do anything at all, except die. Eventually.

I think it's certainly psychologically rewarding to be on good terms with one's family. As long as you do so because you want to try, not because you think you are obligated.

I think love is different from emotional trust. You cannot give yourself emotionally to someone who hasn't shown that they deserve it or want it. That's just self-protection.

But it is possible to at least try to "love" your family members so that in all this crazy world you and they will feel like at least there's someone out there who gives a shit. In the process you may learn more about yourself.

[Zombicide]

Now you can choose yur friends but you caint choose yur family. . .I don't actually know what that's suppose to mean but it's the answer I've most often heard regarding why one is suppose to love their family, although on occasion people will answer with "Yuh know, you wouldn't thankso but some times family can be yer worst enemy". I can happen to become fond of some family members but I have no particular loyalty to them just because they're family. Figuratively speaking, I may consider some people family whether or not they're literally related to me in the traditional notion of a relative, in which case I'd have no choice but to love them. I'm probably a mutation anyway, so I don't know how related I should consider myself to anyone.

[oliclay]

What I encounter is people who think just because they are my parents that I'm supposed to be close to them or be on really good terms with them. Then if someone meets one of my parents they think that I'll turn out the same way but I'm not a product of my environment. There are people who are great to me so I'll spend my time being great to them instead of wasting time with relatives that aren't so great.

[Firebrand9]

My adoptive dad is an ESTJ and my adoptive mom is an ENFP. I honestly can't stand either one of them. Both of them have issues admitting that they are wrong (read as they can't and won't do it), think that their way of life is "the way it's done", somehow got the idea that oppressing me with their stupid and delusional christianity would eventually "convert" me (nope.. Fail), refuse to deal with reality, are wimps, are not terribly bright, always side with other family members and grade school teachers against me, and have no idea how their actions and words affect children growing up. To add to that my adoptive mom is neurotic, has anxiety disorder, and thinks that codependency is normal. If I never saw either one of them again, I'd be very happy... The only love they ever gave me had dead presidents on them... No wonder I don't want kids!

At this point, my friends are my family. There's a few cousins, one uncle, and my sister that I make a point to talk to at least occasionally. I choose to be around them. It doesn't make rational sense to be around people you don't get along with just due to obligation or tradition. Pounding the square peg into the round hole in an attempt to turn it into a round peg is not an effective strategy. It's immensely psychologically harmful to attempt to convince yourself that you like people that you really don't. This creates a rift within yourself where you feel like you can't be authentic because "you're supposed to feel this way about your family". If they don't treat you well or how you want to be treated, then it's far less harmful to everyone if you just don't interact. When you're younger, you have no choice. You have to deal with them. When you grow up, you can make a conscious choice on who you spend your time with and for what reason.





Firebrand9 added to this post, 5 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Even if you don't love them, treating them with respect for the sake of the family you DO care about seems like a good idea. It appears like you're doing that, so kudos.
Respect is earned, not given away like candy.





Firebrand9 added to this post, 28 minutes and 0 seconds later...

In the same way that love involves action to some extent, I think love also involves some degree of choice. That being said, I think it's kind of selfish in itself to decide not to love someone simply because they never did anything especially great for you. It seems shallow to me to base love off of a "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?" mentality.

I think it's important to give people (family members, in this case) as much of a reason as you can, from your standpoint, to change their behavior if they do things that bother you. In other words, if you don't leave the option of forgiveness available to them, they have no reason to seek it from you. Not that giving them the option means that they'll necessarily take it, but removing it makes it that much more unlikely.

I also try not to take myself so seriously as to limit the only points of view that are valid to me to be my own. There is always more than one way of looking at things. If you cut someone out of your life because you disagree with them, it's possible that you're actually doing that person a favor as far as they're concerned.

Well, first off, everyone acts in their own best interest all the time. So we're all rationally self-interested. And not doing something "great" for you can, in effect, be a form of harm. So I disagree with this point. The best relationships are the value-for-value ones where the want to give that value comes naturally from both parties and is in the form that the other party most appreciates.

Also, if a family member does get informed that their behavior is bothering you but either minimizes it, disregards it, or denies it, no matter how clearly and logically you state your case, and no matter how reasonable, patient, and calm you are in your approach, and no matter how many different ways of framing/describing it you attempt, then it's foolish and an utter waste of time and energy to keep pushing a viewpoint that they are unwilling or unable to accept. In this case, the best course of action, for both of you, is to move on. In this case, you do yourself the favor. It just happens to have a mutual affect. Never overestimate your ability to change other people. Influence, yes.... perhaps. Ultimately, people are who they are and everyone has the right to be that person.

I also think that if you have suffered any harm at the hands of what should be your benefactors, then you are under no moral obligation to forgive them. They made their choices and so can you. I don't see the point of spending time with people you don't get along with or, at least for the most-part, agree with. Any of us could die tomorrow for all we know. Would you want to spend your last day on Earth with someone you don't truly like or arguing with them due to disagreement?

[Nihilum]

Family is defined by action, not by blood.

Exactly.

[Firebrand9]

To a certain extent I think you need to make reasonable sacrifices to get along with family if you want to be happy; I don't know anyone who has a poor relationship with their family that is really happy or well adjusted. Then again, this is INTJ "BUT MY WEAKNESSES AREN'T WEAKNESSES THEY'RE JUST MEH BEIN INTJ" central.

Some people think that all criticism and dislike of others is really criticism of ourselves and recognizing in the other qualities we have and don't like. I wonder what those same people would say about your post?

Yes, but the same could be said of all relationships, not just your family. Often it's the people closest to you that do the greatest harm to you. The happiest I have ever been was far far away from my family. It's like a vacation from bullshit, naievity, and drama. Then I'm free to find people who I get along with based on our shared values and perspectives.

Your second point is a psychological projection mechanism which is not always valid. What you criticize and don't like are based on your values. People who want to turn these things back on you will use this psychology trick to make you feel guilty for being authentic. They could also be qualities that you wouldn't want to possess. i could care less what people would have to say about my post. I don't live for anyone's approval or validation. That's my responsibility.





Firebrand9 added to this post, 4 minutes and 21 seconds later...

In general, my attitude is one of duty. Help family even if you don't like them. If they ask for advise, give it, and counsel them towards good ways. If they have done something extreme to warrant your enmity, cut them off to an extent, but if they abandon whatever behaviors that caused the rift and seek reconciliation, forgive them. Blood is blood.

Help can often be a crutch. Your "good ways" and advise may not be universally applicable. And cutting them off may be the most kind thing you can do in some cases. Forgiveness is earned with actions and is sometimes unwarranted. And you may forget, that not all family is blood (adoption).

[Arminius]

Help can often be a crutch. Your "good ways" and advise may not be universally applicable. And cutting them off may be the most kind thing you can do in some cases. Forgiveness is earned with actions and is sometimes unwarranted. And you may forget, that not all family is blood (adoption).

Of course help is a crutch. There is no point in helping people who don't need it. I cannot think of a situation where good advise is not helpful. Whether or not it is accepted is quite another matter. But in my mind, it is important to try all the same. You are quite right about cutting off and forgiveness. If you had fully read the part of my post you just quoted, you would see that I already agree on that subject.

As to adoption, I don't really regard that as true family. To be perfectly honest, I think it as a serious malfunction of blood family when someone has to be raised by strangers. Perhaps I just have a tribalistic mentality, but I think people should be raised by parents or blood relatives. I am realist, I understand that shit happens and this isn't always possible or good. In these cases, adoption is necessary evil.

Anyway, off that tangent, and back to the issue. As I see it, families exist to help each other. That is their purpose. All members have duty to help one another. Disagreements and mismatches in personality do not erase this. Only serious things like abandonment of that duty or worse, mistreatment of those in one's charge are worth cutting off a member. As I said before, forgiveness of such things are only done if said member stops doing whatever caused the rift and seeks to atone for his/her misdeeds. Just my $0.02.

[Firebrand9]

Of course help is a crutch. There is no point in helping people who don't need it. I cannot think of a situation where good advise is not helpful. Whether or not it is accepted is quite another matter. But in my mind, it is important to try all the same. You are quite right about cutting off and forgiveness. If you had fully read the part of my post you just quoted, you would see that I already agree on that subject.

As to adoption, I don't really regard that as true family. To be perfectly honest, I think it as a serious malfunction of blood family when someone has to be raised by strangers. Perhaps I just have a tribalistic mentality, but I think people should be raised by parents or blood relatives. I am realist, I understand that shit happens and this isn't always possible or good. In these cases, adoption is necessary evil.

Anyway, off that tangent, and back to the issue. As I see it, families exist to help each other. That is their purpose. All members have duty to help one another. Disagreements and mismatches in personality do not erase this. Only serious things like abandonment of that duty or worse, mistreatment of those in one's charge are worth cutting off a member. As I said before, forgiveness of such things are only done if said member stops doing whatever caused the rift and seeks to atone for his/her misdeeds. Just my $0.02.

It's deeper than them not needing it. It can create codependence and learned helplessness. You would not get stronger if we went to the gym together and I lifted weights for you. Strength is gained by taking on situations and overcoming them, not by having someone do it for you. The best thing a family can do is not help, it is to support. There's a very important difference here. Help teaches you to depend on that help. Support teaches you to depend on yourself. The later is far more confidence-inducing and helps you tackle larger and larger situations. There's an apt saying for this. "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime". As long as when you're asked, you do the later, then great. Advice is fine if its solicited, but otherwise is nothing more than your opinion. Everyone has their own strategies for life and its best to offer this only if asked for.

Your second paragraph I completely concur with. I think that the only people that are capable of raising their young properly are their genetic predecessors. Only genetic inclinations will have the level of true depth and understanding of their own. That, and statistically, most children are within 15 IQ points of their genetic parents. This makes a subtle but large difference in that child's upbringing, especially if the child understands quicker than the parents can teach them. This is the car equivalent of a car running lean and not getting enough gas to be full-powered.

Sure, in theory, families purpose is "strength in numbers". But it becomes a definition game at that point. If your family's definition of help is your definition of getting in the way, then that help is not helpful. Then, it would be better for them to not help, and not helping would be the help. Disagreements don't erase the purpose, but purpose and end-result are two totally separate things. In the end, it pays to ask yourself "how's this been working for you?". You're only fooling yourself if you don't look at the end-results.

[Shinqui]

Not only is it not necessary to love ones family, often one must question if the existence of ones family is detrimental to them. I, for one, divorced or severed contact with my family and must admit that it was one of my better decisions.

[Thinker]

I have battled with this much of my life.

I find it difficult to love my mother.
I don't have a relationship with my father.

My mother has bi-polar disorder - basically her personality is her disease.
She is unpleasant to be with - pretty much all of the time.

I feel guilty about the lack of contact.
I see her less than 6 times a year - she sucks the lifeblood out of me.

Her bipolar disorder became completely unmanageable once she stopped working - and was "left to her demons".

My wife tries to help her (ENFJ - what can I say) - but I have little empathy left.

[daydreamer]

i agree that you don't have to love your family just because they are family. i dunno that i would say that actions dictate the necessity to love. feelings are what they are. if you love them, you love them. if you don't, you don't. i guess maybe you judge your feelings to be reasonable based on their actions? and therefore excuse yourself from further responsibility to make an effort to reconcile. that's fine. but sometimes there is just a lack of closeness that is no one's fault, either. people are just different. it can be as simple as mutual disinterest. i'm relieved that some of the hyper people in my family are disinterested in me lol - the feeling is quite mutual ! lol

you are lucky to realize this young.

[Samoan Corleone]

I love my family, and not because I feel genetically obliged to do so, but because they've all, in some way or another, contributed to who I am. I'm not just talking about immediate family, I'm also talking about my large extended family. I have three living grandparents and I also have many cousins, aunts, and uncles. I'd be able to describe each one and tell people what makes each of them great. I know it's inevitable, but it wouldn't be the same if one of them left, and they make me feel as if it wouldn't be the same if I was to depart.

Also, if you don't like your family you could always find another one. For starters, just look at my avatar...

[Anreader]

being said, I think it's kind of selfish in itself to decide not to love someone simply because they never did anything especially great for you. It seems shallow to me to base love off of a "Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?" mentality.

I don't particularly "love" my family but it is more that they actively sabotage me and do negative things, not that they haven't done anything great for me. So really its more like, "You really don't love me, so I'm not loving you. You can't make me."

[daydreamer]

I have battled with this much of my life.

I find it difficult to love my mother.
I don't have a relationship with my father.

My mother has bi-polar disorder - basically her personality is her disease.
She is unpleasant to be with - pretty much all of the time.



thinker, i'm sorry your family situation is so complicated, it sounds painful. but to be clear to anyone else reading, although you most likely know... bipolar is not a personality disorder, it is considered and treatable as a chemical imbalance. (it's not uncommon to have co-morbid factors, however.)

[Tranquillity]

No you don't have to anything.

But due to my Chinese culture, family is all important. I don't understand when people say I am not close with my brothers and sisters and can't stand them blah blah and this family is defined by action, not blood stuff. My brother is one annoying sob at times but he is still my brother. If he was just a mate, I would have told him where to go a long time ago. Blood matters.

[zibber]

...

When I explain these things to most anyone they say, "But, they're family!" So what? I would like to know why I should care about someone for this reason. For me, "family" is defined by action, not by blood.

Couldn't have put it better. I haven't seen my mother (the term is quite meaningless after a certain age) in a few years, and it confuses most around me to no end. The thing is, though, why should there even be a reason? When you and a friend grow apart, do you rake your mind for an explanation? No (if you're me), it goes naturally.

I'm not a fan of collective names, anyway (Look up the Vonnegutian (Bokononist) term "granfalloon".), nor words like "bond" or "relationship". I'm a bit of a conceptual purist/minimalist like that. I just know some people and see them with differing levels of frequency. Sometimes I lose touch with people I've previously interacted with often. That's it. No need to cloud something so simple and clear with messy concepts.

.. "If you wish to study a granfalloon, just remove the skin of a toy balloon."

[Nomadofthehills]

No. I don't think I currently love anyone, and I have a pretty big family. I really like several cousins, and a few aunts/uncles.

[llBradll]

To me, being related to someone is a completely meaningless thing.
I think I love my family because they have earned it. However I feel no obligation whatsoever to love my extended family because I/they haven't taken the time or energy to develop any strong relationship.

[Sere]

I love my immediate family, I guess. But when it comes to the extended family or people among my relatives, I don't love them, if anything I respect them - even the only Aunt out of them which is considerate and helpful, I hold her at a high pedestal but I don't think I feel blatant love for any of them due to a number of reasons and factors.

I think there is different levels of love and it's fundamentally connected with the same driving force of respect and willingness to sacrifice. True love involves a lot more, it requires a basis of faith, understanding and cooperation. For some people the list is longer, for example, the intellect or particular attributes that make you feel good being around that person.

You don't have to love your family, but that depends on your experiences with them and unpleasant circumstances involving them in the negative light. However, there's also a specific 'level' of love for them too, often unnoticed, and is usually tested at times when you lay down expectations on certain family members in order to change their ways or do better in problems and horrible situations in the future for their own good. You don't have to love, but 'love' is probably an underlying nature or intention - some are just better at controlling their emotions than others. How important each member of your family is, is a matter of time. You begin to see the whole picture. I could easily not love anyone, but when it comes to those with whom I've spent a great deal of time and attempted to make compromises and effort with, I won't deny love. But I refrain from becoming dependent on them and they excessively on me too, because the family 'bond' doesn't exempt anybody from their duty and if it's not exercised, the reactions will be that of 'dislike' - whether it's hate or love - is probably not important. I believe it's the degree by which you involve family members into your life or personal life depending on their nature or temperaments. That way I usually see my relationships clearer and helps to distinguish what they've done for me and what they haven't, and where I've helped myself and where I couldn't.

[Skade]

I really don't think you have to love your family, INTJs are to practical to feel attachment only because of bloodties. Like respect, love is something to be earned.

Personally, I mourned the passing of my dog more than I ever mourned the passing of my grandfather whom I respected and looked up to a great deal. I will never fully stop grieving my dogs passing, others I will sometimes remember fondly, but not grieve.

I don't really love my parent either, but my father really loves me, so I make an effort every now and then. Only one I really love in my family is my little brother, thats as far as it goes.

[HeyZeus]

I had a crush on a first cousin, but my family convinced me it would make Jesus cry if we got together. Damn...she was hot.

[questionableme]

To say that one should love her family just because they are family seems to run against the very notion of love. Granted, I have not been in love myself, but if one believes that it is a purely emotional response, then you shouldn't be able to reason your way into loving someone, even if that reason is that they are family.

Nevertheless, we should be more likely to feel an emotional attachment toward our family than toward random strangers, if for evolutionary reasons alone. ("I would lay down my life for two brothers or eight cousins.") It also makes some logical sense to be attached to your family, since they are more likely to love and support you. I feel that at some point, this attachment somehow got conflated with romantic love, and there whence the confusion.