Gifted?

[Hdier]

I am officially gifted, and I was wondering how many other INTJ's are to. Remember that gifted does not mean smart, so here is a link to the wiki: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Here are some of the characteristics:

Generally, gifted individuals learn more quickly, deeply, and broadly than their peers. Gifted children may learn to read early and operate at the same level as normal children who are significantly older. The gifted tend to demonstrate high reasoning ability, creativity, curiosity, a large vocabulary, and an excellent memory. They often can master concepts with few repetitions. They may also be physically and emotionally sensitive, perfectionistic, and may frequently question authority. Some have trouble relating to or communicating with their peers because of disparities in vocabulary size (especially in the early years), personality, and interests. As children, they may prefer the company of older children or adults.[4]

Giftedness is frequently not evenly distributed throughout all intellectual spheres: an individual may excel in solving logic problems and yet be a poor speller; another gifted individual may be able to read and write at a far above average level and yet have trouble with mathematics. It is possible there are different types of giftedness with their own unique features, just as there are different types of developmental delay.

Some gifted individuals experience heightened sensory awareness and may seem overly sensitive to sight, sound, smell and touch. For example, they may be extremely uncomfortable when they have a wrinkle in their sock, or unable to concentrate because of the sound of a clock ticking on the other side of the room. Hypersensitivity to external stimuli can be said to resemble a proneness to "sensory overload", which can cause persons to avoid chaotic and crowded environments. Others, however, are able to tune out any unwanted distractions as they focus on a task or on their own thoughts, and seem to seek and thrive on being in the midst of lots of activity and stimulation. In many cases, awareness may fluctuate between conditions of hyperstimulation and of withdrawal. These conditions may appear to be similar to symptoms of hyperactivity, bipolar disorder, autism-spectrum conditions, and other psychological disorders, but are often explained by gifted education professionals by reference to Kazimierz Dabrowski's theory of Positive Disintegration. [5]

[binofhay]

How does one become officially gifted? Does this involve some sort of certificate from a shrink?

[Max T]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If our responses to that IQ thread, where many INTJs rated themselves above the forum's average IQ, is anything to go by...

... then I can suspect what the typical answer to this will be!

(And that deduction only required an average forum member's IQ)
:-)

[rocksteady]

I suspect gifted is just another way of saying INTJ :)

[Hdier]

Sorry, when I say officially gifted I mean that I was given a test in kindergarten, and was put in a special program (which was excellent) until 5th grade, when I move across the country (literally).

BTW, I'm not asking if you've taken an official test or anything, just a quick self-diagnosis will do.

Also, even though someone who is gifted probably has an IQ, someone who has a high IQ is not necessarily gifted. If you have a high IQ, you probably bright, but that's different than gifted. Once I find the sheet of paper we got, I will quote it so it's easier to see the difference.

Right of the top of my head, a few that I can remember are:


Gifted will ask more questions in order to fully understand the topic, while bright children will grasp what is given to them quickly.
Gifted children can relate to seemingly unrelated things to eachother easilly, bright children can't.
Gifted Children will tend to think outside the box, and bright children inside.


And so on, and so forth. Anyways, when I first read this (a couple of months ago), I kept on thinking 'Wow, a lot of INTJ's are like this!', so I decided to check my hypothesis and see how many actually are gifted. Or, at least a rough estimate.

Here's an example: In math (one of the subjects that I am 'gifted in'), we had about 5 minutes to do homework at the end. I was surprised to find out that most people were on the first problem when I had finished the first page. I observed the intelligent (but not gifted) kid in the class, and he was getting through them quickly as well. However, I believe that the major difference was that he had to think about it more, and go through a process in his head, which he did incredibly quickly. I, on the other hand, looked at the problem and allowed my brain to process it (we were finding the relationship between x and y). I was aware of what was going on, but I wasn't actually going 'OK, I do this, then this' and so on. Remember, this is just the educated guess of a Freshman in high school.

[rocksteady]

I understand what you are asking, I was put in the gifted program in school as well, I had a high school reading level in like 5th grade. But I am serious when I say, it was essentially a group for the INTJ's in school. So gifted really is another word to describe INTJ's and probably a couple other personality types. Everyone on this board would probably be described as gifted by most of the other personalty types.

[Hdier]

Yeah! A chance to turn this into a competition! I had a college grade reading level in 5th grade. :)

I hear what your saying, man. Everyone in the group was at least an INT, sometimes P and sometimes J.

[binofhay]

Also, even though someone who is gifted probably has an IQ, someone who has a high IQ is not necessarily gifted.

I think I was a gifted and/or precocious child who is now an average INTJ adult, if there is a such a thing. I fit a lot of the giftedness qualities you've listed. However, my intelligence is average at most. People think I'm much more intelligent than I am simply because I'm very curious, tend to ask lots of intricate or unusual questions, enjoy reading academic-type books, like to do experiments for fun, etc.

I'm not concinved that IQ has anything to do with how smart someone is.

[AresX9]

...
I'm not concinved that IQ has anything to do with how smart someone is.

I'm starting to believe that too. Someone can have a tremendously high IQ like 150-160 but still not be able to apply basic Physics to a real-life situation.

Terms like smart, intelligent, and bright are all subjective to the students that a potentially Gifted child may be compared to. Not only that, but just because a child has been identified as Gifted during elementary school doesn't necessarily mean that the individual will stay in the Gifted status that they were identified in for the rest of their lives. People do change over the time, and nothing can stop that. In my school, most of the Gifted students are on Honors level, when only a handful of us are "truly Gifted" and on the AP level (Myself included). There's only about 7 of us that I'm aware of.

I'm not saying that bad teachers can't affect a student's understanding of a topic, they do. If a teacher isn't properly teaching a subject by following the book they issued, the student will be confused as to where the class is currently at. Or, if the teacher uses worksheets from a completely different source in replace of teaching with the book, there will be a sense of direction that will make the student unaware of what to do.

[banzai]

My parents never put me in any sort of gifted program because we couldn't afford it, but I took advanced and extra-curricular academics all the way K-12. I scored at a "genius" level on the MENSA entrance (although I'm not a member... waste of money) but I don't feel that I am nearly as crazed about mathematics or out of touch with common sense and reality as other people I've met in this level, thus I've concluded that my score was merely another example of my ability to do something well.

Things have typically come to me very easily, and when that is someone communicating information to me, they almost get frustrated about how persistent I can be about the deeper problems and holes in logic that whatever they're saying might suggest.

I've had similar experience in school... I finished my assignments far before anyone else, and to the dismay of any classmates being graded on a curve, my "haste" didn't ever seem to mean that I missed a lot of questions. :)

If I were to describe being "gifted", I would say that it is different from all other examples of intelligence in the sense that you are able to naturally solve things with great intelligence without trying too hard. Like a gift, the answer isn't something you often have to work for. This is a problem in certain things that there are simply no way to get around, because it made me very lazy... I don't think I've ever actually done homework at home, besides those silly presentations and such.

[Paul V]

It was suggested to me when I was about to start first grade, but my pediatrist decided I needed the emotional growth that could only be provided by social interaction with people my own age.

Boy, was he wrong.

[Circe]

I wouldn't be so sure that not skipping a grade was a bad thing. . . I skipped second grade because I was reading at an extremely high level. When I moved from first to third grade, I was still in the gifted program making straight A's. The older kids held this against me and made my life hell. Young children are shallow and petty, and they treated me as if I was some kind of freak. I remember that one girl bit herself, showed the mark to the teacher, and accused me of attacking her. At one point, my teacher had placed me in a small group of other students, and every single one of them moved their desk away from mine and left me, sitting alone in the middle of the room. Because of my age difference, I was ostracized and constantly bullied. By fifth grade I was almost incapable of talking to someone my own age because I couldn't trust them, and by seventh and eight grade, I was one screwed up kid. I didn't escape this hate until high school.

[BlackHawk]

I consider myself fortunate, then. I went to a school specifically for gifted children since Kindergarten. There were all sorts of personality types . . . We actually took the MBTI test as a class and I was the only INTJ. Lots of INFJs, INTPs and similar types, though.

[Paul V]

I wouldn't be so sure that not skipping a grade was a bad thing. . . I skipped second grade because I was reading at an extremely high level. When I moved from first to third grade, I was still in the gifted program making straight A's. The older kids held this against me and made my life hell. Young children are shallow and petty, and they treated me as if I was some kind of freak. I remember that one girl bit herself, showed the mark to the teacher, and accused me of attacking her. At one point, my teacher had placed me in a small group of other students, and every single one of them moved their desk away from mine and left me, sitting alone in the middle of the room. Because of my age difference, I was ostracized and constantly bullied. By fifth grade I was almost incapable of talking to someone my own age because I couldn't trust them, and by seventh and eight grade, I was one screwed up kid. I didn't escape this hate until high school.

I got worse than that, and I was still in normal grades.

However, you could be right. All the suffering I went through has made me wiser. I'd probably be a naïve nerd if I had went to a gifted school.

[binofhay]

I was homeschooled so fortunately didn't have to deal with the vacuous inanities of "peers". To this day I have a hard time making friends my own age. Right now I'm friends with more faculty members than fellow students.

[Meyer]

I would say that I am average or possibly slightly below for an NT. As far as the majority of people that I am around I would definitely say that I am more "aware". Although my shrink said I was extremely gifted.:cheesy: I know what your thinking, INTJ with a shrink? Shes the one person I know though that can converse with me on anything from philosophy to goal oriented issues. A brilliant INFJ. Much smarter than I am.

[rocksteady]

My parents never put me in any sort of gifted program because we couldn't afford it, but I took advanced and extra-curricular academics all the way K-12. I scored at a "genius" level on the MENSA entrance (although I'm not a member... waste of money) but I don't feel that I am nearly as crazed about mathematics or out of touch with common sense and reality as other people I've met in this level, thus I've concluded that my score was merely another example of my ability to do something well.

Things have typically come to me very easily, and when that is someone communicating information to me, they almost get frustrated about how persistent I can be about the deeper problems and holes in logic that whatever they're saying might suggest.

I've had similar experience in school... I finished my assignments far before anyone else, and to the dismay of any classmates being graded on a curve, my "haste" didn't ever seem to mean that I missed a lot of questions. :)

If I were to describe being "gifted", I would say that it is different from all other examples of intelligence in the sense that you are able to naturally solve things with great intelligence without trying too hard. Like a gift, the answer isn't something you often have to work for. This is a problem in certain things that there are simply no way to get around, because it made me very lazy... I don't think I've ever actually done homework at home, besides those silly presentations and such.

You and I have a lot in common brother! Word for word same experience as me. It took me a while to figure out that I was different. I think its due to my heavy intuition score, i get like 88%. It's almost like we use our brains like search engines, and put them on autopilot let the answers crank out.

[niffer]

Yeah, they told my parents that I was gifted after a test in kindergarten also..

[mielikki]

Gifted, so they say. ("they" being those that tested me)
Intellectually, that is. I have always had fairly poor social skills. So after being accelerated in school, I suffered quite a bit. I find it easier to cope now in middle age, but adolescence was truly painful.

[TruorTupnm]

I was never supplied with such tests, so I don't know, but what I read sounded much like the I. N. T. J. From the quote that you gave, I gots everything but the superly great memory (since mine is a bit selective and not perfect in every way). For the hypersensitivity stuff, Argh. I have plenty but didn't know that it had anything to do with being gifted. :huh: Merely a common thread among such?

[mielikki]

I was never supplied with such tests, so I don't know, but what I read sounded much like the I. N. T. J. From the quote that you gave, I gots everything but the superly great memory (since mine is a bit selective and not perfect in every way). For the hypersensitivity stuff, Argh. I have plenty but didn't know that it had anything to do with being gifted. :huh: Merely a common thread among such?

I don't know if my sensory issues have anything to do with being "gifted". I think it has more to do with not-too-incipient Asperger's Syndrome. I have one child with high-functioning Autism, and another with Asperger's. They have different fathers, so perhaps the apple isn't falling too far from the tree. I have decided not to pursue that at the moment. My doctor just grins at me and asks if I really want to know....

[OneBadMother]

INTP here, but I skipped a grade and was ahead of my class for reading level for all of elementary and middle school. Probably still nowadays, but I'm much less ahead of everyone else than I used to be, since I'm in college and generally surround myself with intelligent and/or hardworking people. Never got tested for "gifted", but everyone knew hands-down I was a shrewd child.

[Antares]

Agreed. I don't think IQ has anything to do with Giftedness. I know a very smart individual (IQ 141) and he isn't exceptional at anything. I'm serious. He has a shallow understanding of the world and is extremely ego-centric. I'm currently fourteen but I currently play piano at a music college graduate's level, even though my musical knowledge is mediocre. My sight-reading abilities are far beyond that of my teachers (and they have masters degrees) and two of them withdrew because their skill level is not high enough to teach me (I'm now taught by a prestigious professor). I showed interest in science ever since I was six while my peers were still watching cartoons. Might I add that I've never had much patience for fiction... I think that my reading level is beyond that of my peers as well, but I cannot really tell since my library consists of mainly non-fiction and while I can work with them, I have a low tolerance for similes and metaphors.

I enjoy interacting with older people. I can easily find friends among teachers, faculty, my mother's friends and my friends' parents. I'm friends with many higher-classmen and 'nerds'. I don't very feel comfortable around people my own age. Although I have a broad social circle of acquaintances and a group of closer friends at around 10 or 15, I feel that I have to reduce my use of synthesis and vocabulary. I play immature with them because otherwise I probably wouldn't have any friends. The only people my age who can really relate to me are mostly quiet, introspective and knowledgeable individuals with whom I can chat for hours about the finer things in life. Emotionally, I'm quite a loner. INTJ's are gifted individuals along with a several other types, but unless they tone down, they stand out as a sore thumb among their peers.

[OneHertz]

I was tested for that stuff in grade 7. We had some school wide test and the top3 individuals were given the test to determine whether they were gifted or not. I was one of the three, although the thing was, at the time I had about 6 months experience learning/speaking English (I barely spoke) so I failed that part miserably and wasn't allowed into the gifted program even though I smoked the logic and math parts. Pity.

[INTJoe]

I do not consider myself gifted. My IQ is somewhere around 130, and I've got a college degree in a pretty difficult discipline, and did so in shorter time than most of my peers.

Big deal. Through playing poker and posting on poker forums (LITTERED with INTJ's...), and posting on here, I've come to realize there are many many people out there smarter than myself. Like Ray Liotta, I'm just another schnook who orders lasagna and gets egg noodles and ketchup. When my life is nearing the end, and I look back on it, if I've done anything extra special with my time here, I may consider myself as leading a gifted life. But right now, it's all "potential".

It's kind of like a sports analogy. You know back in grade school, I'd dominate geography bees, spelling bees, and math bees, and score 99th percentile on State standardized tests with little effort. My teacher called my mom one day because I "didn't try" on the state exams because I "blew through it, turned it in, and slept". My mom told her to call back when she gets the results. I got 99th percentile and the teacher called to apologize profusely to my mother. lol. She assumed because I was a goof-off who didn't try hard, that I was not smart.

Anyway, my point is, that when we are young, we are a "large fish" in a small bowl. I'll bet several of us scored most intelligent in our class of 30 students or whatever. Then as we age, we get put into tougher classes with other bright kids. Then maybe we are top half, but not top-tier. Then in high school we are put in even better courses and perhaps struggle. Then college we may get an undergrad degree and try for Med school, or Law school and have a tough time getting in, or not get in at all. We've now become a small fish in a big bowl. We are no longer special, like everyone told us in elementary school. :)

Back to the baseball analogy. It's like a kid who can hit a baseball further than anybody on his street, and everyone tells him how awesome he is, because nobody sees anyone hit better than him. THen a new kid moves in and hits the ball 10% further. Or that same kid ages, and plays on good baseball teams but becomes more "middle-of-the-pack" as he progresses.

Chris Leak won the national championship for Florida as their Quarterback last year. The guy has probably started on every football team he's every played on, and has always played at the highest level possible. Winning QB on the National Championship football team. He did not get drafted in the NFL draft. He will not play football as a quarterback in the NFL because he is not good enough. He isn't as "gifted" as he was told his whole life.

Sorry so long!

[yondyr]

Just as human gender traits can vary widely, so too can human intelligence. Oliver Sacks shows us how trauma, disease and our own genetic make-up can trigger supposedly aberrant behaviour or skills far in excess of the so called 'norm'. That many of these talents made their hosts acutely uncomfortable or unable to function in society explains their presence in his waiting room.
In a society that considers solitary confinement a punishment of the highest order, although not for this writer, quite the reverse, the need, the wish to fit in is understandable.
Those initiating causes have made certain humans capable of: complicated mental mathematical computations, the sense of smell as acute as a dog, sense colours though blind, the intuition of an aphasiac (word blind), the kinetic skills of a Touretter, the naturally generated euphoria of the pre-migraine state, a photographic memory, etc.
That all these traits CAN reside in the human brain gives a fascinating glimpse into what could be achieved should methods be found to tweak these 'fields of potential'.
We could each become a part of a superhuman master race with unimagined powers..and yet..and yet..we are governed not by our brains, but by our so very human emotions, so very human personalities...and so very fallible. (image by me, not of me)

[Danisty]

I was in a gifted program in elementary school and part of middle school. It was a blessing and a curse. I would have been bored to tears in a regular class, but I ended up having to do that in the long run anyway because the program only went through 7th grade. Of course once I got out of the program I was so far beyond the other kids that the rest of school was worse than it would normally have been. I also noticed pretty quickly that once people get the idea that you're gifted, they expect way more out of you than everyone else and sometimes, you just don't want to give that much. You get tired and angry about having to contribute more than your peers.

[feralfae]

Yes, identified as "extremely gifted" at age 5 in mathematics and art, went to a special university lab school or else had tutors. Finished those studies at 14, and took a couple years off to do art after trying university and being just too young to fit in. Tried again later on and breezed through undergrad school in 21 months with honors (math and art), because I was bored and saw no reason to hang around longer than necessary, and it was a private college, so they accommodated me, and I also got studied while I was there by a group from Harvard, to investigate my learning style. Then I went directly to a PhD program at a top university (math) while studying art at an art institute, and was only occasionally bored, then went to teach university, and there, was able to look into and take up different unrelated fields of study, mastered them, taught them, am still doing that, love to synthesize various concepts to create new things. I think giftedness is a part of being INTJ. The intuition factor is highly developed, and we INTJs store and can recall huge amounts of data.
I think that is why we so enjoy visiting with each other: we all have access to a neat array of knowledge!

[Hdier]

I was in a gifted program in elementary school and part of middle school. It was a blessing and a curse. I would have been bored to tears in a regular class, but I ended up having to do that in the long run anyway because the program only went through 7th grade. Of course once I got out of the program I was so far beyond the other kids that the rest of school was worse than it would normally have been. I also noticed pretty quickly that once people get the idea that you're gifted, they expect way more out of you than everyone else and sometimes, you just don't want to give that much. You get tired and angry about having to contribute more than your peers.

Yeah, I've encountered that problem to, and my grades have suffered because of it. On the bright side, though, it can't mess you up if you take something like a multiple choice test, as those have clear answers, A is right B, C, and D are wrong or whatever.





Hdier added to this post, 4 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Agreed. I don't think IQ has anything to do with Giftedness. I know a very smart individual (IQ 141) and he isn't exceptional at anything. I'm serious. He has a shallow understanding of the world and is extremely ego-centric. I'm currently fourteen but I currently play piano at a music college graduate's level, even though my musical knowledge is mediocre. My sight-reading abilities are far beyond that of my teachers (and they have masters degrees) and two of them withdrew because their skill level is not high enough to teach me (I'm now taught by a prestigious professor). I showed interest in science ever since I was six while my peers were still watching cartoons. Might I add that I've never had much patience for fiction... I think that my reading level is beyond that of my peers as well, but I cannot really tell since my library consists of mainly non-fiction and while I can work with them, I have a low tolerance for similes and metaphors.

I enjoy interacting with older people. I can easily find friends among teachers, faculty, my mother's friends and my friends' parents. I'm friends with many higher-classmen and 'nerds'. I don't very feel comfortable around people my own age. Although I have a broad social circle of acquaintances and a group of closer friends at around 10 or 15, I feel that I have to reduce my use of synthesis and vocabulary. I play immature with them because otherwise I probably wouldn't have any friends. The only people my age who can really relate to me are mostly quiet, introspective and knowledgeable individuals with whom I can chat for hours about the finer things in life. Emotionally, I'm quite a loner. INTJ's are gifted individuals along with a several other types, but unless they tone down, they stand out as a sore thumb among their peers.

Mostly the same with me (except for the social circle and group of friends), though I have watched TV a lot for escapism in times of stress. Right now I am extremely board because I have nothing that challenges me. Also, I love fiction (especially sci-fi and fantasy), and I work very well with similies and metaphors, and I am not as talented as you with an insturment. Other than that, though, I'm pretty much the same.

[robin.]

I was in a gifted program in elementary school and part of middle school. It was a blessing and a curse. I would have been bored to tears in a regular class, but I ended up having to do that in the long run anyway because the program only went through 7th grade. Of course once I got out of the program I was so far beyond the other kids that the rest of school was worse than it would normally have been. I also noticed pretty quickly that once people get the idea that you're gifted, they expect way more out of you than everyone else and sometimes, you just don't want to give that much. You get tired and angry about having to contribute more than your peers.Yeah, I really agree with this. I remember in 9th grade bio, I used to consistently get perfect scores on the written sections (I'm better at written than mult. choice). Then, all of a sudden, I started noticing that my teacher would give me perfect scores, and then go back and cross them out, giving me something lower, instead. When I finally brought it up because he had given me a lower score when I had written the same exact thing as someone who got a perfect, he told me, "Well, I gave you the lower score because I know you can do better."

That made me livid. I don't care how "smart" you think I am, you better grade me objectively just like everyone else in the class. I did not like that teacher.

As for giftedness, I was the first person in my school to be tested, I think in 1st grade.....so when I was 5. My score was just enough to get in (IQ of 130). I don't think I'm "gifted," I think I just started to grasp concepts much faster than my peers. I'd say I'm about equal right now, maybe a bit above average. Where I do differ significantly, though, is my intense desire to learn and my diligence in my studies. That's what makes me seem so much smarter than other people, when in reality I think I'm just a tiny bit more intelligent.

Either way, one thing that the people who tested me messed up on was assuming that just because I fell into the "gifted" category, I was necessarily gifted at everything. I am horrible at math, always was, and probably always will be. I eventually understand it, it's just that I have to put in way more effort than other people. Well, in second grade, I was put into the hardest math class, where the teacher was going over *gasp* long division!! Yeah, that was way too much for me, and I was put into an easier class. What made me laugh the most was the teacher's reason for switching me. She knelt down, so, you know, she was "on my level," and said very slowly, "Well Robin, you see, the other teacher's class doesn't have enough girls in it, so we think you should be in her class from now on."

Hahahahaha....I think all she got from me was a blank stare.

[Caramel]

"Well, I gave you the lower score because I know you can do better."

Is this even legal?

I don't know what kind of grade giving system your school used, but schools in Holland give absolute marks. You get x points for y questions correctly answered, all points combined is your mark. These points range from zero to hundred, hundred being perfect sore, sixty being passing grade. Everything below is failing grade. So not giving points for correctly answered questions is illegal and it sometimes even happens that people go to court over it, if it can't be setteled/corrected with the exam covering bureau.

[Danisty]

Is this even legal?

I don't know what kind of grade giving system your school used, but schools in Holland give absolute marks. You get x points for y questions correctly answered, all points combined is your mark. These points range from zero to hundred, hundred being perfect sore, sixty being passing grade. Everything below is failing grade. So not giving points for correctly answered questions is illegal and it sometimes even happens that people go to court over it, if it can't be setteled/corrected with the exam covering bureau.Nice system! I've never heard of anyone taking someone to court over grades. I couldn't even get justice when my senior year English teacher failed me because she was prejudiced. I had to graduate in summer school and, as you can surely imagine, that was quite horrifying. I still don't trust English teachers and I doubt I ever will. I find them arrogant and unimaginative.

I believe robin is talking about essay questions though. With essay questions, you can get partial credit and it's very much at the discretion of the instructor. I don't like that at all, but I do love essay questions much more than multiple choice, etc. because there's always the possibility of bullshitting your way through it...lol.

[Hdier]

Is this even legal?

If robin lives in America, then no it is not legal to grade subjectively, grading must always be objective.

[Danisty]

If robin lives in America, then no it is not legal to grade subjectively, grading must always be objective.That's great in theory. Try proving it though. It gets very complicated...at least, it does in this part of the country.

[Hdier]

Carry a tape recorder around with you. :grin:

[Danisty]

Carry a tape recorder around with you. :grin:Where I grew up, a teacher would never admit they graded you differently though. Plus, there's a general attitude here that students are morons and teachers know what's best. It's very hard to be taken seriously down here.

[Hdier]

Where do you live!?!?!?

[Danisty]

Where do you live!?!?!?Savannah, Georgia

[Hdier]

I should've just checked your account, huh. Sorry. :embarrassed:

The odd thing is, in my experience the child is generally believed over the adult, unless the child has a bad record behind him/her.

[dreamexandra]

Having been bored in classes all my life, including gifted programs, I no longer really know how to put a lot of effort into something and not procrastinate and finally bullshit a paper together. If a teacher lowers my grade because they are biased against me or my point-of-view, I'd be furious; but to be frank, I wish that my teachers had looked at my papers and said: "You can do better." Being held accountable could have improved me as writer today--as long as it's not busywork, but actually delving into a question and producing a better piece of work that would add to my ability and considerations--and I feel immense gratitude to the one teacher who gave me my only Bs in high school, and who along the way taught me to truly think for myself and work to a higher standard, not be suffocated by sliding my way through life.

[robin.]

Is this even legal?

I don't know what kind of grade giving system your school used, but schools in Holland give absolute marks. You get x points for y questions correctly answered, all points combined is your mark. These points range from zero to hundred, hundred being perfect sore, sixty being passing grade. Everything below is failing grade. So not giving points for correctly answered questions is illegal and it sometimes even happens that people go to court over it, if it can't be setteled/corrected with the exam covering bureau.I live in the US (New Jersey, to be exact) and normally teachers stick to the same exact system you have. This guy was just a jerk.

And yeah, these questions were essay questions, so it wasn't as ridiculous as marking a multiple choice question wrong.

I argued with him, but I eventually saw that it didn't matter in the practical sense because I was still going to get an A in the course either way. I was just furious that he could felt he could take such liberties with my grade.

[Empathic]

There are many types of giftedness. But broadly speaking and taking the given description above, it's not uncommon for INxx types to be gifted - introverted intuition is excellent for deep learning.

[deicruxified]

hmmm gifted...

i already know how to cut classes way back in nursery hahaha...

hmm on the serious side, mom said i was able to speak straight (not baby talk) when i was 2 years old and made graffittis at the same age. i went to nursery when i was 3. but in school i was a slacker so i never get to have high grades :)

[Hdier]

Albert Einstein didn't have high grades either.

[Danisty]

I should've just checked your account, huh. Sorry. :embarrassed:

The odd thing is, in my experience the child is generally believed over the adult, unless the child has a bad record behind him/her.Yeah, that's completely different than the public schools down here.

[Myrak]

The closest I've had to "gifted testing" or whatever, was in year 4 primary school where we got tested to gain entry to an extra-curricular program with courses on varying subject matter. I got in, and so did a bunch of others who ended up becoming my closest friends throughout primary school. (I've always seemed to befriend the more intelligible people I meet...). I remember the test being very easy though, my memory tells me it was just a bunch of pattern matching. I was also doing advanced maths out of school, so by year 4 I was already doing year 6-7 work.

That program lasted until the end of primary school, and apart from that program, primary school was pretty torturous curriculum-wise (not to mention peer-wise). I had the same teacher for both years 6 & 7, exact same topics taught as well (Save the Wildlife! yada yada). By years 5-6 I had heard about algebra and was intent on learning the basics in class, yet we kept rehashing the same shit over and over ("Wow! That's a prime number? I wouldn't have guessed..."). I wish I had decent internet back then, so I could of self-taught myself a bit.

High school has been a bit better, I've been in top maths successively every year and it's at least been slightly interesting. What I haven't enjoyed about my past 4 years of high school is that there are so many unnecessary subjects we're forced to do (Society & Environment? Fuck that.). English as well has gotten progressively worse, and I can pretty much pinpoint the exact moment I stopped putting effort in. The books they get us to read are just painful. Since it's a Catholic school, we're also forced to have Religious Education classes, which is just the epitome of an oxymoron.

What all this has built me up to, is just not putting effort into pretty much anything school-wise at the moment, even the subjects I like and am good at. That's not to say I don't get good marks, because I do, especially in the subjects I enjoy and value (Mathematics and Japanese mostly) but I could be doing so much better if I had more motivation. I find myself doing my own extra-curricular activities, currently I'm teaching myself C++ programming (I'm loving it, 250 pages of the way into a 1200 page book, heheh). Since school's ended for me a few weeks back, I even took to reading an Information Systems textbook in an attempt to actually learn something about the subject, because the course (and teacher) this year were horrendous! I think I've learnt more in one night reading on my own, than the entire year of the course.

I don't know if I would be considered formally gifted but I feel myself that I fit most of the descriptors posted.

[Hdier]

I probably would befriend the smartest people to, but I'm smarter than them, and I get on their nerves a lot (I have a bad habit of out showing them).

Pattern testing is part of the gifted test I took, though it was a bit more complicated than just matching, and the test I took seemed easy to me as well.

I'm not putting much effort into my schoolwork either, but I generally seem to get A's and B's anyways. My school needs to have class that can teach me at a faster rate, as that would keep my interest and make it so that I'm not totally bored in school.

I know a lot about excel, all self taught, though I now have a For Dummies book on it. In fact, I know more than my Info Tech teacher, though I wouldn't ever let her know that (I make a habit of being on good terms with my teachers).

[Caramel]

I think I've learnt more in one night reading on my own, than the entire year of the course.


Don't you juste hate that? For algorithms class we had 3 months to work through a rather 'difficult' textbook, hand in all the assignments in it and then do an exam about it. I did it in 3 days.

University really is just a well deserved vacation. :/

[Provoker]

On Giftedness...

In elementary school I took the gifted test and qualified for the gifted program but my teacher would not approve. He claimed that I had behavioral problems and that I did not read enough. In response to this, my mother was really pissed off at the decision and spoke with my teacher and the principle about it. Ultimately, the verdict did not change and I was not admitted into the gifted program because of this.

In retrospect, I believe the school made a poor decision. True I was uninterested in the rediculous stories that are part of the grade-school curriculum but I have the parents of friends remind me (occasionally) that I used to walk around with a newspaper at about 8 years old and I would highlight and track some stocks I was trying to follow like Bre-X (remember that scandel?) and Barrick Gold. I understood pythagorean's theorem when I was about 7. Yet despite all of this I was sent to the principle's office daily. In grade 2 (I was 7) I was sent to the office by a jewish teacher whom I had a huge crush on and when a fellow teacher walked past me I tilted my notebook which had a huge nazi symbol to symbolize my anger for the teacher having sent me to the office. At one point, I was required to go to the principle's office during lunch where I would either draw or play chess with the principle as the authorities deemed me a liability in the schoolyard. As a result, I would continue getting into trouble and fights all the way up to grade 8 without having my abilities properly fostered.

Now, I am in fourth year university and plan to attend law school next year. In recent semesters I have managed to attain 4.0s. I think I was always very curious but I've really grown intellectually at university. Having said that, in my judgement the best thing those teachers could have done is put me in the gifted program. It would have put an honorable stamp on my abilities which would have been meaningful for a misunderstood 8 year old. Moreover, I was consitently getting in trouble because of boredom. As such, it becomes necessary for a person to stimulate his or herself in other ways which is what I did. I disliked the emphasis on group work. Go now and pair off into groups. As soon as those words were uttered I had no interest at all in whatever we were doing. Add to this teachers that call on you spontaneously to read aloud - another stupid alleged learning device. Truth be told, it was not until university that I became a confident speaker. Incidentally, I am comfortable communicating complex ideas to the class because I feel respected as a free thinker and intellectual and not just a robot that speaks upon command by a teacher. In elementary (and high school to some extend as well) the teachers look at you with condescending eyes - or maybe I just perceived it that way because they thought they were talking to a person with a mental age the same as physical age. Well, my IQ is somewhere between 131 and 155 (depending on the test) and I was always more mature than my physical appearance suggests.

That said, I floated through school relying on raw intellect. Sure, if I was interested in a project (like I constructed a wicked model for a basketball stadium for the Toronto Raptors) then I would work hard. Ultimately, however, the education system didn't work to my advantage (until university). Even reading habits, I still read in little blocks out of habit when I could have been taught how to photoread and take in more information with every eye fixation from a young age. These (and countless others) are the kinks I have to iron out now that I'm older.

Ultimately, the cookie-cutter model is not for everyone. Sometimes the best thing for a young gifted child is a program that tailors to individual students needs and emphasizes their strengths while still meeting the minimum requirements. Contrary to this view, many are so concerned with balance: if one is brilliant in math but not as good in english they should work on english. Well, any chess player or military strategist will tell you that you play to your strength. That is to say, if a child is a math genius than keep facilitating growth in this area. William James Sidis (IQ of 300) was admitted to Harvard at age 11 because of his math genius. I truly think the education system needs to address the need to harden a person's strengths rather than bring up their weaknesses.

[Monte314]

Nothing good will come from thinking too much about this....

[True Rune]

I don't think so. I just didn't have the dedication in school and never did homework. I wonder if I could look at my permanent record.

[PHS Philip]

The problem with anything like this on a forum (especially one where there's already a selection bias to believe questionable online tests and criteria :rolleyes:) won't give any kind of accurate picture, because people will either knowingly or unintentionally lie.

I was tested in 2nd grade and easily qualified as gifted; so what? It only matters in terms of how specific parts of education should be conducted, and maybe the pace of learning, and even then, it's only a very, very general indicator. There are kids who get better grades than me because they work much, much harder. Why does it matter that I'm "gifted," really? I'm definitely not better than them. They deserve good grades much more than I do. Considering how important grades are for what I want to do, I'm not exactly acting as if I'm smart. It's just a label, and a label that's absolutely abused.

I think that the vast majority of "gifted" kids are probably just very smart, and not really so different that they really fall into the category of gifted, which is supposed to be a very small group, and not just based on IQ like it is now. I think I fall into that group, but I also know that I can't objectively view myself well enough to tell, so I try to eliminate that from my attitudes and actions. Chances are quite good that I'm just really smart, but do not fall into what this label is supposed to mean. Even if I do fall into this category, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are people much, much smarter than me.

Just some ramblings that I hope crossed paths with this thread's topic a few times :p

[Sean O]

Right of the top of my head, a few that I can remember are:

* Gifted will ask more questions in order to fully understand the topic, while bright children will grasp what is given to them quickly.
* Gifted children can relate to seemingly unrelated things to eachother easilly, bright children can't.
* Gifted Children will tend to think outside the box, and bright children inside.Based on those criteria, I am definitely gifted.

[replicant]

I can honestly say that in terms of IQ as dictated by a test, I probably score near above average but not quite there. I grew up in a poor family. I also did not have ready access to books except what was at school. I also went to inner city schools that had poor funding, rowdy children, and unexceptional teachers. In high school, I was placed in honor classes. I think I did well but I think I had the potential to accomplish so much more if I had the right teachers and access to things that children in county schools were receiving.

I feel that the SATs are bullcrap. They are not an adequate measure of intelligence or capability. And it's unfair to test children with these tests when you cannot and have not insured the same level of teaching and opportunities for all children. Public education is this country is uneven.
Not only this, if everyone has lived differently and not had the same types of people in their lives - its very hard to measure intellect given such variables and inequality. But I suppose, society makes the rules and must create the haves and have nots.

Back to the question, I think I probably do fall into the gifted category. I will ask a lot of questions. If I am not satisfied, I will press until I am. But in the end, I recognize the ability for a situation to change. I can relate a lot of unrelated things together that children who have been deemed brighter cannot. I can think outside the box if I chose or in.

I think I may not be a MENSA member but I am still learning and changing and realizing and shaping the world as it is experienced by me. I think by not shutting out change by allowing shifts in my reality and accepting shakeups and looking for more and more understanding that IQ really has no bearing on me whatsoever.

[Reon]

My teachers thought I was gifted and they still do currently but I never had the motivation to do work until this year (looking towards a psychology major) I considered most of the work I was handed 'to easy' and never finished it. I would always ace the test even though I never studied for the material or even read it more than once.

If I was gifted it would be at English (I had the highest reading level you can get in 6th grade which cuts off at high school/college level) Science (No concrete evidence here, just a class I enjoy) and History (If I read it once I could probably remember it so I was naturally good at all history classes, especially civics and world history)

This is all a bit subjective though, just like saying someone with a higher Iq is more capable than a person with one or ten points less. Then again you could also just grow out of it >>

[White Raven]

According to what's posted here and several other lists I've researched, I classify as gifted, and so do four of my siblings.
I think maybe the reason we'd get less 'gifted' as we got older would be because we tried less and less since it came easily. Would you find that true?

[NephilimAzrael]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If our responses to that IQ thread, where many INTJs rated themselves above the forum's average IQ, is anything to go by...

... then I can suspect what the typical answer to this will be!

(And that deduction only required an average forum member's IQ)
:-)


If I were to describe being "gifted", I would say that it is different from all other examples of intelligence in the sense that you are able to naturally solve things with great intelligence without trying too hard. Like a gift, the answer isn't something you often have to work for. This is a problem in certain things that there are simply no way to get around, because it made me very lazy... I don't think I've ever actually done homework at home, besides those silly presentations and such.

I have had those tests, and chalk it down that i was called "gifted" and "genius", ironically, the school i went to was rather repulsed by it. It's not called the murder machine for nothing. I drudged through the same scholastic hell as my peers. Im going to have to ask, are you gifted or priviliged?

[Eric86]

I was in a lot of the gifted programs throughout elementary and high school, and did quite well in them.

[Erika Redmark]

According to what's posted here and several other lists I've researched, I classify as gifted, and so do four of my siblings.
I think maybe the reason we'd get less 'gifted' as we got older would be because we tried less and less since it came easily. Would you find that true?

Although if IQ tests are really IQ tests, your scores shouldn't go down over time, having been called gifted but discouraged from working at too high a lever by certain teachers over the years who would rather I rested on my laurels, I must say I must be something like a world champion laurel-rester by now. >>;

[amandag]

I, an INTJ, have read about what the qualities of gifted students are and I match most of them, though I am not highly intelligent. I took an IQ test online and my IQ for my age, 24, is 126 according to the test.

[PHS Philip]

I, an INTJ, have read about what the qualities of gifted students are and I match most of them, though I am not highly intelligent. I took an IQ test online and my IQ for my age, 24, is 126 according to the test.

Online IQ tests are full of crap even more than real IQ tests are, so I wouldn't judge by them if I were you. I have a "real" test score to compare my results to, and the online tests aren't even close to it, generally. Some are higher, some are lower, but very rarely are they anywhere in the right range.

[Amar]

Whats it matter if you're gifted or "bright"? If you get the same results, then it's the same.

[Gabrielle]

I was in a gifted program until I went to high school, scored very well on IQ exams and SAT's, got into med school at age 17, the youngest in my school's history, scored as one of the top scorers in the nation for mathematics and Latin.

Big deal.

My question is, does that REALLY make me gifted?

When one says the word "Gifted", I always think of a few mathematicians that sadly passed away at such an early age. Abel, Galois, Ramanujan to name a few. Cauchy does not get the honorable mention. Pierre Curie gets the title. His wife, Marie, does not.

What is the dividing line?

For me, "Gifted" does not require a specific training to reach that point. Pierre Curie, for instance, apparently rarely went to school, if never, and had reached a Ph.D level at age 18. He demonstrated with his brother the crystal oscillator phenomenon at age 21. From a pragmatic point of view, I don't think I'm able - nor any common layman - to do such a feat at such a young age. Before his death he completed the Curie's Law and the Curie Dissymetry Principle.

So why does he get the Gifted prize and not Marie? When reading her biography and the method that the couple discovered Radium, it was a method that any Physicist could do. It did not require extremely high manual dexterity, or a wacky method, or a new set of equipment that was yet to be developed. It was just hard manual labor - so hard that most chemists shied away from it. Marie, to me, seemed to have the perseverance, but not that flare that Pierre had.

Pierre, on the had, created something new - Curie's Law and Curie Dissymetry Principle. Those require a specific thought process and perhaps, an inexplicable epiphany. (I did not add Newton to the list because that apple story is not true.)

I, on the other hand, received extended training in mathematics and language. Up to a certain point, math does not require brilliance, just perseverance. Of course, if one was to step into Number Theory that's another story. I think the only "natural" thing I have is my perfect pitch.

So... am I trained? Of course I am. Will I be able to create something new, like a new surgical method to pinpoint the exact enlarged muscle for dilated cardiomyopathy? Probably not (although I'd very much like to). So am I gifted?

For me, my answer is a no.

[RabbitEars]

I am so glad they don't do IQ tests at school here, so less people has to wonder whether they are gifted or not, depending on some parameters... which, like in my case, vary from test to test because my attention is all over the place. I had only one real test as a small kid, when I didn't know what an IQ test actually is. A pretty lady gave me some fun games and asked to count numbers, which was very nice of her. Then they told my mom I was gifted. Well, whatever :D
Anyway don't say you won't discover anything. True knowledge is to be gained, not given to you on a silver plate. If it's painfully hard, then at least you know you are learning. Don't wait until they give you a problem; ask your own questions and invent your own problems, and then you'll discover something. Ask what your teachers DIDN'T tell you. Your J ness acts for your advantage; you're probably not an eternal procrastinator like me. Your formal training made you think small - it's not you're born genius or completely not. Reverse that stereotype. Great discoveries has been made by people. Who weren't always precocious. Sometimes they just looked for their questions long enough (Pasteur did very poorly in college)

[tenspot]

I got kicked out of school as a result of being labeled "gifted".

I dont like labels, which is why I question myself each and everytime I sign onto this forum.

[reb]

imnsho, 'the gifted adult' is worth a read for those who are undecided. took me only a couple days to read it. there's a few self tests (tests lol!), but the discussion.....wish i could parse and lay out things that straight. layed there in the hammock and went 'wow! she's strumming my face with her fingers, playing my life with her song....' lol! (yes, it's corny....i heard it in nebraska...)

amazon, used, was about 10 bucks shipped. passed mine on to another friend who wondered if she was 'gifted'; asked her to pass it on as well; gifted, after all, means sharing the gift..... just a thought....
r

[MostlyHarmless]

Before entering high-school my parents sent me for a complete psychometric evaluation. Unfortunately for me it didn't include the MBTI, otherwise my life would have been better, sooner. But anyway, according to my mother (I wasn't allowed to see the result) some years later, I had been "labeled" as gifted. Does that change much? Not really. I had suspected as much most of my life anyway.

[127001]

I remember being frustrated with how slow school moved; I didn't understand why the other kids needed such deep and verbose explanations of simple tasks.

I started reading very early, and have never stopped.

I can shame almost anyone in my chosen fields, regardless of their age or experience level.

Gifted and arrogant, I would say.

[reb]

stolen from another forum-somewhat controversial....but, i can see some of this in me...:)r

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[hum]

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If our responses to that IQ thread, where many INTJs rated themselves above the forum's average IQ, is anything to go by...

... then I can suspect what the typical answer to this will be!

(And that deduction only required an average forum member's IQ)
:-)

lol! I was just thinking that ;D



for the question, I'm not gifted (and I think almost none of the people in here should be considered that. there's a few number of truly gifted people in this world. it would be a strange coincidence if everyone in this forum happens to be like that)

[NephilimAzrael]

Those whom may assert giftedness, or even those who don't, read this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and tell me whether it is eerily familiar.

[phantasma]

I wouldn't consider myself very gifted, especially comparing to the other people on this forum. But the description fits me spot on. And I taught myself how to read when I was 3. That alone is enough for me to be labeled "gifted".

[NephilimAzrael]

Likewise. But reading is just such an interesting field. Earliest memory?

[RabbitEars]

I wouldn't consider myself very gifted, especially comparing to the other people on this forum. But the description fits me spot on. And I taught myself how to read when I was 3. That alone is enough for me to be labeled "gifted".

Oooh, me too :)
I am a fond bookworm :) I love anything that has letters in it, from technical manuals to poetry. Is it the same for you?

[zibber]

Those whom may assert giftedness, or even those who don't, read this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and tell me whether it is eerily familiar.

"For example, they may be extremely uncomfortable when they have a wrinkle in their sock"

I am super gifted.

[Trym]

I guess I'm not gifted according to the wiki. I learned to read quite quicly, and I spoke English fluently long before my peers (My mother tongue is Norwegian). Unfortunatly, I have never been good at mathematics, both because I didn't care enought when I was younger, and bacause I didn't get enough follow-up at school, It's been a bad circle ever since. I also always had a bit of a problem with my motorics skills, I learned to walk much slower than my brothers and I have always sucked at sports.

[NephilimAzrael]

There is actually a reference to language skills over mathematical ability. It also relates to numerous different proficiencies that constitute an individual being gifted.





AZRAELtheGHOST added to this post, 0 minutes and 57 seconds later...

"For example, they may be extremely uncomfortable when they have a wrinkle in their sock"

I am super gifted.

Get it out, get it out !!! :laugh:

[Monte314]

Those interested in this topic would probably enjoy this article about the "most gifted" child prodigy on record: Bill Sidis.

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The truly gifted often suffer terribly, both socially and psychologically. One of the young scientists who aspires to work on my team was a child prodigy. His current struggle arises from the fact that, while he is brilliant, those he far exceeded while young have ultimately matured and reached his intellectual level. What made him "special" for so many years is now perceived to have been lost, when in fact nothing has been lost but the feeling of "specialness".

[Terian]

Meh, I've taken IQ tests online many times. I never get less than 135, and I think they are bullshit.

That's not to say I don't think I'm gifted. The rapidity of my thought processes and the overall cognitive power of my brain allows for superior to near-genius function.

[NephilimAzrael]

Those interested in this topic would probably enjoy this article about the "most gifted" child prodigy on record: Bill Sidis.
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I read reports on this before, it is very sad. Such a great mind, and rather a shame that he misses out on so much happiness as a result.

[phantasma]

Oooh, me too :)
I am a fond bookworm :) I love anything that has letters in it, from technical manuals to poetry. Is it the same for you?

I don't really care for technical manuals, but I find myself reading them anyway. I just love everything about words, their power, various meanings, how they change in different contexts, and the best ways to communicate with words. I view the English language as a system, and I like to be proficient in that system.