The value of higher education

[Lucid]

What are your thoughts concerning the value of going to college? Is it a waste of time? A series of hoops to jump through in order to earn a piece of paper that will allow you to get a job? A mind-opening and informative experience? A place for liberal brain-washing? Getting drunk? Having the government implant computer chips in our brains?

[Mason]

All of the above. Not too sure about the last one.

I think it really depends on where you go, and what you make of it.

[Kfbr]

I really think it is a series of hoops we have to jump through in order to get the career we truly want. I think apprenticeship is the best way of learning a trade (internship in todays standards) which is what I'm gonna have to do after law school anyway.

I know I can be a lawyer, I'm just getting the piece of paper that proves to the world that I can write papers and do math problems for 8 years.

[logan235711]

It pretty much is just a jump through hoops for people who seek to work at a business/politics. Anyone else can literally skip college and do enough research on your own, a job will come naturally from that work. In otherwords, businesses/politics value less personal achievement than the hoop jumping, while about everyone else will hold both equally.

[PhoenixRising]

I do think you are correct to a degree (no pun intended). Although many employers do still want degrees I'm seeing a lot more "or equivalent experience" clauses in job postings than say 10 years ago. However in many larger corporations if you want to go beyond being an hourly employee and into managment / supervision many require that you either have a degree or are working on one (and fortunately many larger employers are also willing to help fund your education too, usually at a so much per year cap).

[thegnat]

Mostly a series of hoops.

Although it is informative - at least with the sciences. And you get valuable lab experience - and you get research experience and connections to be able to do so. Without college I wouldn't be able to research, period. And I certainly wouldn't have enough education to on my own if research didn't need a college degree.

[banzai]

I've circumvented higher education with personal study to great success, but it is somewhat of a necessity for most sought-after careers.

It's one of those things... if you have it, nobody cares, if you don't have it, then there is a problem.

In my case, I present a strong and confident enough case that prospective employers (if I feel like working for someone else) have no choice but to accept that my lack of a degree hasn't affected my abilities in the past and won't affect my ability in the future. They have to ask... do I really want to pass up this guy over something that he makes seem like such a technicality?

[GOD]

If you go to college (university) to study a course that is not vocationally orientated then you probably are wasting your time and money.

- Insert topics like philisophy, psychology, politics and a whole host -

Unless you do a PhD in them etc... so you can be a "real" expert.

A degree does however open doors... you can escape your small town and go places. (but you might not be adequately rewarded for the degree though, general degrees now only achieve what lower qualifications use to achieve 20 years ago!).

However, One thing University does teach you, is "intellectual discipline".

My University qualifications have paid back for themselves well and truly, no regrets. Doors would not have opened without them.

[binofhay]

If you go to college (university) to study a course that is not vocationally orientated then you probably are wasting your time and money.



I completely disagree. That's the (capitalistic) mindset these days, unfortunately...A vocationally-oriented education is so narrow. If that's what you're going for, there's nothing wrong with it. But I think a good education, one that benefits the whole person and makes one a strong critical thinker, requires breadth rather than compartmentalization, studying across different areas and making connections between things that you otherwise never would. Not even many colleges do this very well, instead having students sit in lectures, being spoonfed from textbooks which they regurgitate onto exams.

I took a very interdisciplinary arrangement of classes including science, history, sociology, philosophy, religion, logic, literature, aesthetics, etc. My experience has completely changed the way I look at the world, the way I communicate with and interact with the world. If I had taken a vocational path instead and decided I wanted to leave my field to do something else, I'd have to start over again in something else. But with a broad foundation, strong critical thinking skills and aptitude to learn across the board, I could apply my so-called waste-of-time degree to whatever I wanted to.

[Amaranth]

Overall, I think college is worth the investment in time and money if you can clearly see how the degree will positively affect your job prospects. Otherwise, it has the potential to waste precious years of your life and delay your entrance into the real world, where real learning begins. I strongly agree with Mark Twain's warning: "Don't let schooling get in the way of your education."

[masterg]

I went to college and got a degree in a field that I no longer want to work in. College is learning how to learn and how to follow directions.

It has opened alot of doors for me. I think work experiance is way better. If you do go to college make sure you know what job you want and the degree that will help get you that job.

I am glad I went to college and got a degree but I wish it would have been in a technical area instead of liberal arts.

[wolf]

You learn more in the real world. I already had critical thinking skills and knew almost everything I "learned" before I went. It was a massive waste of time, money, and energy.

Now-a-days, thanks to the fact I had (have) helicopter parents and an unbelievable educational history (really low graduation ages, for example), I have quit even mentioning it because it feels dishonest (I constantly wonder just how much was me and how much was string pulling) and people don't believe me anyway. Besides, my experience outrageously eclipses my education. In recent years I have kept my parents from having any contact with my employers and I'm planning to even move without telling them where I've gone, just to prove to myself that I can do such things entirely on my own. I no longer list my education on my resume (I haven't for a few years now).

[chessman]

In today's world, I think that a college education is far too expensive to be worth it. Most INTJ's are autodidacts in reality--they can learn anything they put their mind to. The problem with today's corporate world is that they gauge your worth by how many pieces of paper you can put on the wall. It's stupid in my opinion, but that is their mindset. I've known people who didn't graduate from high school who are more brilliant and intuitive than some Ph.D's I've know in my life. That why I hate corporations and organizations. They don't like individual thinking. They like the sheep mentality.

[INTeJer]

In today's world, I think that a college education is far too expensive to be worth it.

Perhaps you are only thinking of the american system? not in all countries higher education is "far too expensive to be worth it". As far as I know (but I have certainly limited knowledge, so correct me as appropriate), only in the US you have to actually set aside a big chunk of money for your kids to go to college. In other countries (most of Europe I believe), things are quite different. Without affecting at all the overall quality of education.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

Mr. Antolini in Catcher in the Rye told Holden that sometimes a formal education helps us decide what does not suit us. Then again I have never been stabbed and getting cut up doesn't suit me

[Lucid]

My own experience with college has been mixed. It has been incredibly expensive and a huge pain in the ass to get a piece of paper that says I can do something I could have done without going to college.

However, I've also learned a lot. Not only about my chosen field, but about all kinds of other subjects as well because of the general education classes, foreign language classes, and classes for my minor.

Most importantly I feel like I've learned exactly how much I don't know (plenty) and how to tell the difference between good information and some wack-job's pseudo science.

So while I probably didn't need to spend so much time and money on college to learn how to do what I want to do for my career, I don't feel it's been a complete waste of time either.

[Rei]

I has been, so far a life experience. Sure I think university ways are ridiculous and has nothing to do with how intelligent person is, but living off campus and dealing with things on my own and seeing a wider range of people has really... expanded my world view.

Of course, the same could probably be said of going out and getting a job. But I think in a learning atmosphere, you learn more about the "good" things in people before the dark twisty things like blackmail/politics come up and make you bitter and twisted.


BUUUT essentially I'm just here for the piece of paper so I don't have to be someone's work horse all my life.

[janonymous]

as long as you learn something, it's important.

[terencec]

If making money is only your goal after college and provided you don't care what you do without degree, I think most college degrees are waste time unless the degree can make a lot of money, e.g. Medical degree.

It is because one spends too much money (debt) and time and he/she can never make it up later.

Colleges won't tell you that because college is a "Business".

However, I believe going to college is more than just making money. Someone has to study Russia or art of history so they can do the translation or appreciate ancient arts. College is not just (well paid) job-training institution.

[yondyr]

Given the wits, you can teach yourself anything, and some just don't belong/can't learn in a classroom situation. But as many have stated, without the degree it's an uphill battle for a profession/job. I left school at 15 considered uneducable, which is fine, I never had to work, since I married a physics prof, and spent my time teaching myself. It's left voids in areas that didn't interest, but great depth in areas I was fascinated.

[Zilal]

College has been hugely fulfilling to me... it might help that I'm returning to it a decade after dropping out. Well, I think I would have liked it if I'd stuck with it then too, but maybe not as much. I like the sense of purpose in going to class every day, I like being in a place that feels full of possibilities... I'm surrounded by people who are trying to better themselves, or trying to push the boundaries of research, or achievement in general... I've been really pleased by the quality of teaching at the university where I am, I respect my professors and I find myself learning a lot more from them than just the subject material. That is, how to navigate the academic world, how to achieve your potential, how to be successful, how to get things done. I am just so happy to be in a place of learning and surrounded by bright and interesting people.

If you're thinking about the spend now vs. make later view of college, I can't contribute much personally, but I know that studies overwhelmingly say it's worth it monetarily to get a degree, even with huge amounts of student debt. If you'd rather try to be an entrepreneur or make it on talent alone, that's certainly an option, but there are some definite drawbacks to that path too.

[danalaina]

What are your thoughts concerning the value of going to college? Is it a waste of time? A series of hoops to jump through in order to earn a piece of paper that will allow you to get a job? A mind-opening and informative experience? A place for liberal brain-washing? Getting drunk? Having the government implant computer chips in our brains?

yes. XD

it's mostly about the paper...proving that you can put up with sustained drudgery. it's also about the initiation...fitting in with the rest of population that's graduated.

i heard it suggested recently (can't remember source) that it's mostly about establishing your suitability for jobs later - that you fit in the same socioeconomic check box as the people already working there. in that vein, it's used as a tool for exclusion. just another way to reinforce the us and them.

i'd never thought about that before, but it's a perfectly logical conclusion and really pisses me off.

[Sylvanus]

I did six years in the military and was able to get a job where I make 50k a year with no degree (and no debt) and lots of experience. But I am fairly limited in my options now. With a 4 year degree, that is about where most people start out at (give or take 20k depending on the area of study), but without that degree I can't really move up to a better job (at least in my field). So I'm using my GI Bill to pay for a degree, and I'm hoping it pays off.

[Cuivienen]

Perhaps you are only thinking of the american system? not in all countries higher education is "far too expensive to be worth it". As far as I know (but I have certainly limited knowledge, so correct me as appropriate), only in the US you have to actually set aside a big chunk of money for your kids to go to college. In other countries (most of Europe I believe), things are quite different. Without affecting at all the overall quality of education.

Yeah, I live in Germany and am in my first semester of studying law at a large university.

In most universities over here you have to pay 500€ a semester (Those 500€ were just introduced about a year ago, before that university used to be virtually free). Of course that does not include the approximately 500-600€ a month it costs to rent a room/appartment, buy groceries, buy books, have hot water & electricity, etc.
I don`t think we have very many private universities, those that do exist take about 20.000€ a year (which does not include the costs of living), which is considered very expensive.

We do not have your four year college-system: After 12-13 years of school you can immediately start studying law/medicine/business/whatever, your grades during the last two years of school and your grades in the final exams determine which universities you can attend and what subjects you can study.

I like our system because it lets me start studying for my law degree immediately. At the same time I am perfectly free to visit lectures about other subjects or learn extra languages if I choose to do so. I look forward to spending a few more years at my university to find out as much as possible about my subject and enjoy life as a student before I look for a job.

[INTJ326]

Hi, I'm new.
I'm 19 and when I finished high school I decided to take a year out before university to travel and decide what to do with my life. I've applied to some good universities to study history but I'm no longer sure if this is a good idea since I learnt that male arts graduates earn less on average that men with no degree. Obviously money isn't everything but as an INTJ I worry a lot about whether I'm making a good economic contribution to society and whether I'm being of use to people. After leaving school I worked in a Scottish youth hostel for two months and earnt £1800 ($3600). I had lots of free time, the work was pretty easy, living costs were very low and I got to live in a Scottish castle. I'm wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to get another job like that and do a distance learning degree (I still want to further my education). What do other people think?

[Sylvanus]

Hi, I'm new.
I'm 19 and when I finished high school I decided to take a year out before university to travel and decide what to do with my life. I've applied to some good universities to study history but I'm no longer sure if this is a good idea since I learnt that male arts graduates earn less on average that men with no degree. Obviously money isn't everything but as an INTJ I worry a lot about whether I'm making a good economic contribution to society and whether I'm being of use to people. After leaving school I worked in a Scottish youth hostel for two months and earnt £1800 ($3600). I had lots of free time, the work was pretty easy, living costs were very low and I got to live in a Scottish castle. I'm wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to get another job like that and do a distance learning degree (I still want to further my education). What do other people think?

I'm currently doing distance learning and I think it's great. I can do my schoolwork on my own time, and I can skip through the BS reading if I already know it or if I can make something up and still get a good grade. If you aren't focused, it is hard to stay on task and many people do drop out because they don't have the discipline for it.

Your salary is directly proportional to your contribution to society. You don't get paid what you are worth, you get paid what the job is worth. Low paying jobs aren't seen as valuable to the net productivity of society. However, there are some jobs that fall outside this system: trial laywers, politicians, small business owners, drug dealers. They all make contributions to society in different ways (some good, some bad, some mixed), the difference is that they tend to make their own rules as to how their performance affects their pay. The purpose of a job isn't to make money, it is to produce something. In summary, I agree that money isn't everything, but if you are interested in producing something for the good of society it can in a way be seen as noble.

[radioactivez0r]

I was told long ago that college is a better academic experience because one is surrounded by people who choose to be there; while I'm sure these days that's not altogether true, the academic peer environment still makes it worthwhile for me, so much so that I've considered working toward teaching at a university...just being around a lot of people who are trying to earnestly learn is a jolt. It must have something going for it, to have anything good said of it by me, the guy who holds a degree that took 9 years to complete and is completely useless in my current job.

[Quite Robert]

I feel liked I learned a ton in my undergraduate degree, History, and am now pursuing an occupation with my Grad studies, Buisness.

To be very corny, I think that college is what you make it. If you go to learn you can, if you go to get a degree for a job there is some of that too, shoot if all you really want to do is get drunk and party- you will.

[Lucid]

To be very corny, I think that college is what you make it. If you go to learn you can, if you go to get a degree for a job there is some of that too, shoot if all you really want to do is get drunk and party- you will.

Good point!

[Maitri1970]

What are your thoughts concerning the value of going to college? Is it a waste of time? A series of hoops to jump through in order to earn a piece of paper that will allow you to get a job? A mind-opening and informative experience? A place for liberal brain-washing? Getting drunk? Having the government implant computer chips in our brains?
I'm a total school nerd. I love school. I decided to pursue a master's degree in higher education so I could be around school my entire life! I'm addicted.
If there is one area in my life that makes me really emotional, it's the academic environment. I love it.

[terencec]

I'm a total school nerd. I love school. I decided to pursue a master's degree in higher education so I could be around school my entire life! I'm addicted.
If there is one area in my life that makes me really emotional, it's the academic environment. I love it.

I also enjoy school because

1. The politic is much less compared in work.
2. Only take care of my work, don't care too much other people.
3. Learn a lot of different subjects instead do the same/similar things over and over in the job.
4. If I don't understand something (none job related), I could ask the professors. Now, I get struck.
5. I can meet much more intelligent people in school (my experience)
6. I can see a lot of college girls.:)