View Full Version : Most Polite Messageboard ever?
rocksteady
11-29-2007, 02:05 PM
is it just me or is everyone here incredibly respectful of each other, more so than any other online community I've ever been involved in. I don't know if because we all are they same personality type, or if an actual INTJ trait. I consider myself polite almost to an extreme, what about you guys?
NeonTetra
11-29-2007, 02:09 PM
You guys are actually very well behaved. No need for luminol here!!
Yet?
Lucid
11-29-2007, 02:12 PM
is it just me or is everyone here incredibly respectful of each other, more so than any other online community I've ever been involved in. I don't know if because we all are they same personality type, or if an actual INTJ trait. I consider myself polite almost to an extreme, what about you guys?
I have also really enjoyed participating in this forum because of how polite and respectful the majority of people on it are the majority of the time. I imagine that as the forum grows I'll probably end up using my ignore button more than I've had to so far, but who knows, maybe a desire for polite and rational debate is a type trait. Wouldn't that be nice. :stunned:
Drayakir
11-29-2007, 02:16 PM
Well, I'm generally not a polite person in real life- in fact, I think politeness is over-rated... but I already noticed that this forum tends to not have arguments that go something like "You're wrong because you're ugly and have no friends."
Why this is so? Er, probably because we try to keep up this veneer of sophistication, or actual sophistication. Sorry. I tend to see the worst first.
Haha, I think it is our personality type. INTJ's, at least in my experiance, are the most laid back, least giving a damn what you think people in the world, so there should practically be no conflict here. Speaking of which, I even see conflict as a positive, helps me grow.
I've never seen a political subforum so respectful. This is why we need to run the world.
OneBadMother
11-29-2007, 02:18 PM
Well no, the worst an argument gets here is, "You're wrong because of [point A], [point B] and [point C], thus you are dumb/not worth listening to." The fact that rational arguments with perhaps irrational roots is the worst we've got is definitely better than most other forums.
Maverick
11-29-2007, 02:34 PM
One of the reasons I wanted to join this forum was because of this. I realized after reading several posts that most people here were very level headed and the discussions were interesting as a result. I really enjoy this atmosphere of mutual respect and focus on each other's logic.
rwyatt365
11-29-2007, 03:42 PM
It's just that there seems to be no need for emotion-tinged outbursts. The tendency for rational discourse rule here.
Well it depends what you mean by polite.
I'm guessing you mean that we don't start insulting anyone etc.
I think it's just because we know that won't lead anywhere. Attacking a person doesn't solve the issue, at best it makes the person shut up, which sucks because that means you'll never win.
Other thing is that I don't think INTJ's tend to take things personally very often anyway.
On the other hand, lurking INTP-central has proved to me that it's not an INT-specific thing =/
Some of the people over there are VICIOUS.
The Many
11-29-2007, 05:01 PM
On the other hand, lurking INTP-central has proved to me that it's not an INT-specific thing =/
Some of the people over there are VICIOUS.
Most definitely. The main difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTJs are open to new ideas. INTPs are not. In a discussion with an INTP and simply offering a different opinion than his, I was told to stop boring him with my childish arguments and learn to grow some appreciation for socialism (which is quite hilarious in itself, coming to think of it). Unfortunately for him he had only intuitied the situation and my position, and my actual stance was more thought-through than his...
INTJs are in general more individualistic and self-confident in their thinking. An INTJ knows an attack on logic is an attack on logic, not on the INTJ - perhaps because the INTJ knows that he/she will be able to come up with another solution to the problem.
OneBadMother
11-29-2007, 05:02 PM
On the other hand, lurking INTP-central has proved to me that it's not an INT-specific thing =/
Some of the people over there are VICIOUS.
Some of the INTPs there I swear must be mistyped.
Jezebel
11-29-2007, 05:16 PM
On the other hand, lurking INTP-central has proved to me that it's not an INT-specific thing =/
Some of the people over there are VICIOUS.
Most definitely. The main difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTJs are open to new ideas. INTPs are not. In a discussion with an INTP and simply offering a different opinion than his, I was told to stop boring him with my childish arguments and learn to grow some appreciation for socialism (which is quite hilarious in itself, coming to think of it). Unfortunately for him he had only intuitied the situation and my position, and my actual stance was more thought-through than his...
INTJs are in general more individualistic and self-confident in their thinking. An INTJ knows an attack on logic is an attack on logic, not on the INTJ - perhaps because the INTJ knows that he/she will be able to come up with another solution to the problem.
I think it's a community difference rather than a type difference. I've found the INTPs we have on this forum to be very polite and pleasant, and have come across several rude members who typed themselves as INTJs on the other MBTI forums.
We started a community with members who were polite, and I think it has attracted more of the same. At the very least, I think people are less likely to lash out at others and find it inappropriate when they are treated kindly in the first place.
The Many
11-29-2007, 05:23 PM
I think it's a community difference rather than a type difference. I've found the INTPs we have on this forum to be very polite and pleasant, and have come across several rude members who typed themselves as INTJs on the other MBTI forums.
We started a community with members who were polite, and I think it has attracted more of the same. At the very least, I think people are less likely to lash out at others and find it inappropriate when they are treated kindly in the first place.
That is of course another way of looking at it, and probably another reason. Still, INTPs seem to get more prone to anger when pressured than INTJs do though - this is not to say that INTJs don't get angry either, but INTPs seem to do it a lot more. This is mainly based on real-life experiences though, since I haven't been posting on, or even reading, other MBTI forums.
Drayakir
11-29-2007, 05:27 PM
We're not supposed to get angry. We're supposed to calmly assess the situation, find out what is wrong with it, and then kill the bastard, in the most gruesome way possible.
Anyway, the politeness here is nice, but I think because it's a forum for intellectuals. I used to visit a science forum, and it'd be pretty similar- where there was a lot of arguing, but it was civil.
Much more preferable to the poop-flinging idiots that inhabit other places.
INTJs are in general more individualistic and self-confident in their thinking. An INTJ knows an attack on logic is an attack on logic, not on the INTJ - perhaps because the INTJ knows that he/she will be able to come up with another solution to the problem.
I think the possible difference is that Js are more driven to find the 'right' answer than Ps are. We are much more interested in finding the right answer than proving our stance to be correct. So usually, despite opinions we're pretty neutral/accepting in our stance.
I think it's a community difference rather than a type difference. I've found the INTPs we have on this forum to be very polite and pleasant, and have come across several rude members who typed themselves as INTJs on the other MBTI forums.
We started a community with members who were polite, and I think it has attracted more of the same. At the very least, I think people are less likely to lash out at others and find it inappropriate when they are treated kindly in the first place.
I'm not saying that INTPs are rude or INTJs are all polite, I just suspect they (INTPs) are more likely to poke fun at people. What you suggest is possible, I just think INTJ-ness might be something that sets the tone in the first place. We're more serious in our discussions and it makes it harder to stick in some ridiculous rude comment that will be taken seriously. This in turn discourages a person's urge to post such a comment.
The Many
11-29-2007, 06:03 PM
I think the possible difference is that Js are more driven to find the 'right' answer than Ps are. We are much more interested in finding the right answer than proving our stance to be correct.
Not according to my understanding, as far as I have read Js (or at least INTJs) are interested in finding a truth rather than the truth, whilst INTPs are more anal about being objectively and logically correct - which many of them, in the end, won't end up being due to taking all criticism personally.
Not according to my understanding, as far as I have read Js (or at least INTJs) are interested in finding a truth rather than the truth, whilst INTPs are more anal about being objectively and logically correct - which many of them, in the end, won't end up being due to taking all criticism personally.
Oh really?
Hum... scratch that theory...
Paul V
11-29-2007, 06:52 PM
I think it's because we actually respect each other. People are usually polite to those they respect, and since most of us are of the same type, we view each other as equals. That is the basis for respect. I personally can say that I really like the members of this board, because I tell you, after moderating, administrating and leading other forums, I have a good grasp on the average poster's personality. And trust me, this place is WAY different.
I only hope this lasts for a long, long time.
Lucid
11-29-2007, 07:19 PM
I think it's because we actually respect each other.
For the most part I think you're right. I've had one or two discussions with people on here where they started inserting little passive aggressive insults into their posts, but that's the worst I've gotten. Unlike the insulting, bullying, screaming and harassment I've seen on other forums. That's one of the reasons I wanted to start posting here.
HackerX
11-29-2007, 08:30 PM
Most definitely. The main difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTJs are open to new ideas. INTPs are not. In a discussion with an INTP and simply offering a different opinion than his, I was told to stop boring him with my childish arguments and learn to grow some appreciation for socialism (which is quite hilarious in itself, coming to think of it). Unfortunately for him he had only intuitied the situation and my position, and my actual stance was more thought-through than his...
More thought out by who's standards? Yours? Ha! Typical J.
INTP's are considered more open to new ideas by a long shot. INTP's are more likely to think through more scenerios, including those that don't initially agree with their own opinions/values, without prematurely rejecting scenerios based on those opinions/values.
The Many
11-29-2007, 08:39 PM
More thought out by who's standards? Yours? Ha! Typical J.
INTP's are considered more open to new ideas by a long shot. INTP's are more likely to think through more scenerios, including those that don't initially agree with their own opinions/values, without prematurely rejecting scenerios based on those opinions/values.
The tone in this answer only proves my point; INTPs do take things personally...
INTPs are slower in changing their opinions than INTJs, since they seem to take criticism of their deductions more personally than INTJs do. And as to what is considered what, that has absolutely no value in a particular case - especially not in a case like this where you haven't even seen the discussion I am referring to.
Lucid
11-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Well I think the INTPs we have here are nice. Regardless of type, it seems like most of the people on this forum are decent people.
HackerX
11-29-2007, 09:01 PM
Then I can only suggest you do some research into the types :)
Of course an INTP will take a argument that is wrong personally. That is the whole point of being an INTP :)
You stated this as fact.
Most definitely. The main difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTJs are open to new ideas. INTPs are not.
However, INTP's more likely to be the ones coming up with the new ideas in the first place, over an INTJ who will be held back by their own judgement based value system.
Here's the different, from an INTP perspective:
INTJs are in general more individualistic and self-confident in their thinking. An INTJ knows an attack on logic is an attack on logic, not on the INTJ - perhaps because the INTJ knows that he/she will be able to come up with another solution to the problem.
An INTP won't be as confidant, because they know already that there are more solutions. INTJ's are self confidant, because of their limiting J. An INTP is just as happy to hear an attack on logic. In fact, the more logic a person is using when arguing (even if they are arguing against the INTP) the more highly the INTP will see that person. Until that's proven to the INTP, the INTP will take all arguments against with a grain of salt. Ever seen an INTJ argue hypocritcally? It's easy enough for an INTP to do.
The INTJ might know they can come up with another solution, but the INTP already has.
As for not knowing the case, who cares? It had nothing to do whether you actually were right or not, it's how you came across. You basically said that you were right because you thought you were. i.e. "I'm right because my J tells me I'm right"
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 05:27 AM
I think the main thing is that "like engenders like" Since the posting here has a tendency to be civil and reasoned, the responses tend to be of the same tone. When things do get a bit heated, someone steps back and say, "I think we need to look at this differently". Now, we can debate whether this is type-specific or we've just managed to attract a community of cool, reasonable, "adult" (yes, even our younger members are well-spoken and mature) people.
Whatever the case, I enjoy being here and hope it stays this way. :thumbsup:
Doppelbock
11-30-2007, 05:32 AM
is it just me or is everyone here incredibly respectful of each other, more so than any other online community I've ever been involved in. I don't know if because we all are they same personality type, or if an actual INTJ trait. I consider myself polite almost to an extreme, what about you guys?
Piss off. ;-)
I think the main thing is that "like engenders like" Since the posting here has a tendency to be civil and reasoned, the responses tend to be of the same tone. When things do get a bit heated, someone steps back and say, "I think we need to look at this differently". Now, we can debate whether this is type-specific or we've just managed to attract a community of cool, reasonable, "adult" (yes, even our younger members are well-spoken and mature) people.
Whatever the case, I enjoy being here and hope it stays this way. :thumbsup:
This is another one of those discussions that will go on forever because most likely, neither will give way since it's personal (it's like religion threads, it's more personal). So I'm just going to leave it at this... Whatever it is... it set a tone for this forum, and as rwyatt says "like engenders like"
It's just that there seems to be no need for emotion-tinged outbursts. The tendency for rational discourse rule here.
Rwyatt, you beat me to it.
Someone is expecting emotional outbursts here on the INTJ forum? Come on, be realistic.
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 06:05 AM
Piss off. ;-)
...the exception to the rule. ;)
Rwyatt, you beat me to it.
Someone is expecting emotional outbursts here on the INTJ forum? Come on, be realistic.
I think it's not so much it won't happen as it will be ignored if it happens.
The Rose
11-30-2007, 06:43 AM
is it just me or is everyone here incredibly respectful of each other, more so than any other online community I've ever been involved in. I don't know if because we all are they same personality type, or if an actual INTJ trait. I consider myself polite almost to an extreme, what about you guys?I know for myself that respect is one of the most important relational qualities to me - maybe the most important. I give respect, and I like to receive it. Maybe a lot of INTJs are that way, hence the high level of respect you have perceived on this board.
The Rose added, 1 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...
I have also really enjoyed participating in this forum because of how polite and respectful the majority of people on it are the majority of the time. I imagine that as the forum grows I'll probably end up using my ignore button more than I've had to so far, but who knows, maybe a desire for polite and rational debate is a type trait. Wouldn't that be nice. :stunned:Yeah. The ones on my ignore list are not INTJs.
The Rose added, 1 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...
One of the reasons I wanted to join this forum was because of this. I realized after reading several posts that most people here were very level headed and the discussions were interesting as a result. I really enjoy this atmosphere of mutual respect and focus on each other's logic.Thank you... and welcome! :)
The Rose added, 1 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...
Most definitely. The main difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTJs are open to new ideas. INTPs are not. In a discussion with an INTP and simply offering a different opinion than his, I was told to stop boring him with my childish arguments and learn to grow some appreciation for socialism (which is quite hilarious in itself, coming to think of it). Unfortunately for him he had only intuitied the situation and my position, and my actual stance was more thought-through than his...
That is such typical INTP drivel !
The Rose added, 4 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...
Not according to my understanding, as far as I have read Js (or at least INTJs) are interested in finding a truth rather than the truth, whilst INTPs are more anal about being objectively and logically correct - which many of them, in the end, won't end up being due to taking all criticism personally.I don't understand what the difference between a truth and the truth. In order for something to be a truth it must be in agreement with the truth.
Hdier
11-30-2007, 06:48 AM
I've only been on two forums ever, so I can't say much about that, but I am always extremely polite (sometimes whoever I'm with get's annoyed at me because I'm holding a door for people and they don't...stop...coming).
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 07:02 AM
I don't understand what the difference between a truth and the truth. In order for something to be a truth it must be in agreement with the truth.
How I look at it;
THE truth is something that is true for anyone and everyone, something that can be proven through objective analysis. (i.e. 1+1=2, no matter who you are, or where you are - except in relativistic space ;) ).
A truth is "subjective truth", something that is true for one person, but may not necessarily be true for someone else. (i.e. "people that lie are bad", which is not necessarily true for every person).
The Rose
11-30-2007, 07:19 AM
How I look at it;
THE truth is something that is true for anyone and everyone, something that can be proven through objective analysis. (i.e. 1+1=2, no matter who you are, or where you are - except in relativistic space ;) ).
A truth is "subjective truth", something that is true for one person, but may not necessarily be true for someone else. (i.e. "people that lie are bad", which is not necessarily true for every person).Oh. I don't believe in that.
A truth must agree with the truth or else it cannot be a truth.
Oh. I don't believe in that.
A truth must agree with the truth or else it cannot be a truth.
That's what I think too...
Maybe it's just because I'm borderline...
I'm a closet P, J just COMPLETELY takes over when I panic.
But THE truth is different from A truth in other people's minds. So because it is possible, a difference does exist.
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 07:51 AM
Oh. I don't believe in that.
A truth must agree with the truth or else it cannot be a truth.
That's what I think too...
Maybe it's just because I'm borderline...
I'm a closet P, J just COMPLETELY takes over when I panic.
But THE truth is different from A truth in other people's minds. So because it is possible, a difference does exist.
There are things that people believe as being "true" that, upon close examination, are subjective judgements and cannot be supported by objective proof. In that case, is it "true"
People once believed that the earth was flat - that was a "truth". But it could only be true subjectively because objective proof evidenced that the world could NOT be flat. That did not (and has not - re; the Flat Earth Society) convinced people otherwise. My wife and son believe that man never set foot on the Moon - to them, that is "truth". but Objective evidence shows otherwise. They possess A truth that the Moon landing was filmed in a studio.
The Rose
11-30-2007, 07:51 AM
That's what I think too...
Maybe it's just because I'm borderline...
I'm a closet P, J just COMPLETELY takes over when I panic.
But THE truth is different from A truth in other people's minds. So because it is possible, a difference does exist.Right. That's scary to me.
There are things that people believe as being "true" that, upon close examination, are subjective judgements and cannot be supported by objective proof. In that case, is it "true"
People once believed that the earth was flat - that was a "truth". But it could only be true subjectively because objective proof evidenced that the world could NOT be flat. That did not (and has not - re; the Flat Earth Society) convinced people otherwise. My wife and son believe that man never set foot on the Moon - to them, that is "truth". but Objective evidence shows otherwise. They possess A truth that the Moon landing was filmed in a studio.
Good explanation.
Technically it's more of a "possible truth" vs "ultimate truth"
I think Rose just doesn't think it is a truth unless it's an ULTIMATE truth.
But the problem with that is there are very little things in life (science) we can consider ULTIMATE truths. Anything we think is THE truth now, might just be A truth in the future.
There really is no sense in believing THE truth and being rigid about it. Truths change... it's unfortunate and it kills me J from the inside out... but... well... it's true.
The Rose
11-30-2007, 08:38 AM
Good explanation.
Technically it's more of a "possible truth" vs "ultimate truth"
I think Rose just doesn't think it is a truth unless it's an ULTIMATE truth.
But the problem with that is there are very little things in life (science) we can consider ULTIMATE truths. Anything we think is THE truth now, might just be A truth in the future.
There really is no sense in believing THE truth and being rigid about it. Truths change... it's unfortunate and it kills me J from the inside out... but... well... it's true.I agree with you but I still hold all truths up to the standard of THE truth. I agree that I can be wrong about something and have to adjust my paradigm.
I agree with you but I still hold all truths up to the standard of THE truth. I agree that I can be wrong about something and have to adjust my paradigm.
But if everyone held the 'standard truth' no one would believe in the theory of evolution.
The Rose
11-30-2007, 09:49 AM
But if everyone held the 'standard truth' no one would believe in the theory of evolution.I think that would be wonderful.
OneBadMother
11-30-2007, 09:57 AM
Gah, now I need to jump in.
Even if there is a complete and absolute truth, how would we know that what we thought was that truth? Some human certainties may coincidentally = truth, but it's not guaranteed. Some things are too subjective to have truths and other ones are too uncertain to know truths, though you can ascertain a high probability of it being true. So I guess that I'm an atypical INTP in that I don't think that there's an absolute truth that I'll ever be 100% certain of. :P
Lucid
11-30-2007, 10:49 AM
Gah, now I need to jump in.
Even if there is a complete and absolute truth, how would we know that what we thought was that truth? Some human certainties may coincidentally = truth, but it's not guaranteed. Some things are too subjective to have truths and other ones are too uncertain to know truths, though you can ascertain a high probability of it being true. So I guess that I'm an atypical INTP in that I don't think that there's an absolute truth that I'll ever be 100% certain of. :P
In general I think this pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well. But there are truths I am absolutely certain of, although most of them involve my personal experiences and knowledge of myself. And unless you get all Cartesian on it, there's no way to doubt those thing. (Example: I am 100% certain that I'm female and I live in Colorado.)
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 11:01 AM
In general I think this pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well. But there are truths I am absolutely certain of, although most of them involve my personal experiences and knowledge of myself. And unless you get all Cartesian on it, there's no way to doubt those thing. (Example: I am 100% certain that I'm female and I live in Colorado.)
Female-ness can be objectivly verified, so I'll give you that truth.
However, who says that you are in Colorado? Is it because the signs there say you're in Colorado? Couldn't that be rigged? Maybe you're in a sealed environment that has been labeled as "Colorado", but actually is at the bottom of the ocean. What if this message board is just a carefully contrived scheme to give you the impression that you are actually talking to live human beings, when - in fact - you are conversing with a very sophisticated AI inference engine that supplies answers.
And now that I have given away this plot...don't answer your door! :scared:
Lucid
11-30-2007, 11:04 AM
Female-ness can be objectivly verified, so I'll give you that truth.
However, who says that you are in Colorado? Is it because the signs there say you're in Colorado? Couldn't that be rigged? Maybe you're in a sealed environment that has been labeled as "Colorado", but actually is at the bottom of the ocean. What if this message board is just a carefully contrived scheme to give you the impression that you are actually talking to live human beings, when - in fact - you are conversing with a very sophisticated AI inference engine that supplies answers.
See, that's Cartesian!!
And now that I have given away this plot...don't answer your door! :scared:
I have followed your advice and am sitting in the dark in my basement wearing a tinfoil shower cap for added security.
rwyatt365
11-30-2007, 11:21 AM
I have followed your advice and am sitting in the dark in my basement wearing a tinfoil shower cap for added security.
Good girl!
Now - ahem - what corner, exactly, of the basement are you sitting in? :rolleyes:
The Many
12-01-2007, 02:22 PM
See, that's Cartesian!!
Actually it's more Kantian, even though Descartes was the one who started throwing this dualism around. But really, to make my view on the matter clear, what can objectively be held as true are the following things - the subject (the mind), the object (reality - that something exists; but what composes this reality we have no idea of at all - reality is a noumenon as Kant had it, whilst our perceptions are phenomena, that is to say, our experiences), and mathematics (that 1+1=2 - my (subjective) theory concerning mathematics is that they are the way the brain subconsciously organizes its perceptions).
As to the difference between a truth and the truth, what is stated above is necessarily true - thus the truth. Everything involving phenomena and perceptions is possibly flawed.
Ohh, and there is absolutely nothing to say that you are a girl. Maybe you're only dreaming it?
BlackHawk
12-01-2007, 02:39 PM
How about we think of this grammatically. Because, in most people's minds, that's all this is.
A truth is a singular noun.
The truth is the plural, collective whole of all the "a truths."
Simple.
Now you can continue on about Cartesian thinking and whatnot.
The Many
12-01-2007, 03:19 PM
How about we think of this grammatically. Because, in most people's minds, that's all this is.
A truth is a singular noun.
The truth is the plural, collective whole of all the "a truths."
Simple.
Now you can continue on about Cartesian thinking and whatnot.
You sound like Ortega y Gasset (and yes, I love remarks that go over the heads of others)... and you are quite correct according to your definitions; the a/the truth distinction is just a wordplay of mine. It does however depend on your definition of "truth"; remember that the word really only means an opinion which can be varified in reality. Most opinions can be verified, since they start off as perceptions, and thus there are quite a few "truths" out there.
Some of the INTPs there I swear must be mistyped.
Without a doubt. Generally the real ones get along with us rather well. We make great working teams. The real ones don't have personal/emotional investments in their theories and are rather flexible.
Lucid
12-01-2007, 04:21 PM
Actually it's more Kantian, even though Descartes was the one who started throwing this dualism around.
Ohh, and there is absolutely nothing to say that you are a girl. Maybe you're only dreaming it?
Wouldn't that be Cartesian? With the whole evil-demon thing?
The Many
12-01-2007, 05:26 PM
Wouldn't that be Cartesian? With the whole evil-demon thing?
I usually think of it in Kantian terms due to how much I agree with his works on metaphysics (remember that it is impossible to exist and to think without thinking about something - no mind could exist for itself without at least having had experiences), but it could be termed Cartesian too since he was the first to talk about such things. But on the other hand, it could also be solipsistic, Russellian (with his brain in a vat analogy), or whichever word you may want to throw around. Subjectivistic is perhaps the best term, that's at least what I use when going more serious about it.
chocky
12-01-2007, 11:52 PM
When the concept of Most Polite Message Board is introduced, almost immediately, INTPcentral is held up in contrast. Months ago I went there expecting to find open-minded, polite, intellectually fascinating people with a passion for ideas. I thought I'm an INTP, these people will be as captivated by the beauty of thought, ideas and elegant systems as am I - we'll have discussions!
How wrong I was. The culture of that place does not represent the true sensibilities of the INTP type.
OK, I admit I was personally offended because nobody appreciated the beauty of ideas I thought were captivating ;-)
This forum comes much closer to my ideal. I hope it develops in a good way.
elsdfr
12-02-2007, 01:23 AM
The site is only new, give it time.
With other types posting more and the topics diminishing it'll probably head the same way.
HackerX
12-02-2007, 01:54 AM
When the concept of Most Polite Message Board is introduced, almost immediately, INTPcentral is held up in contrast. Months ago I went there expecting to find open-minded, polite, intellectually fascinating people with a passion for ideas. I thought I'm an INTP, these people will be as captivated by the beauty of thought, ideas and elegant systems as am I - we'll have discussions!
How wrong I was. The culture of that place does not represent the true sensibilities of the INTP type.
OK, I admit I was personally offended because nobody appreciated the beauty of ideas I thought were captivating ;-)
This forum comes much closer to my ideal. I hope it develops in a good way.
When INTPCentral was first beginning, it was much the same as what you now expect. Both Jezzie and myself can attest to that as we were both there.
The site is only new, give it time.
With other types posting more and the topics diminishing it'll probably head the same way.
Yeap, we're out to get you. I'm here specifically so I can ruin as many discussion threads as I possibly can with my INTP nonsense. I admit it! it's true. You got me.
Or.... the more you try to uphold this sense of "politeness", this over emphasized sense of "right", the more things spiral out of control in your attempts to subvert and control the "population", to your own sense of judgement. Soon, forum members are calling for new moderators, banning of non INTJ's, limit access to new members.... Any excuse will do, surely one of those things is the reason the forums will go down hill?
I think you'll find if you stop worrying about it, just as it was originally both here, and at INTPCentral, things will turn out just fine :).
elsdfr
12-02-2007, 03:39 AM
"What me worry?"
I'm neither for nor against a polite forum I just find it disappointing that nothing can be done about it (like you said).
Plus it hasn't happened yet so it looks like we get to fend you off for a little longer! :laugh:
The Rose
12-02-2007, 06:39 AM
...
Or.... the more you try to uphold this sense of "politeness", this over emphasized sense of "right", the more things spiral out of control in your attempts to subvert and control the "population", to your own sense of judgement. Soon, forum members are calling for new moderators, banning of non INTJ's, limit access to new members.... Any excuse will do, surely one of those things is the reason the forums will go down hill?
I think you'll find if you stop worrying about it, just as it was originally both here, and at INTPCentral, things will turn out just fine :).I don't understand what you're saying. INTPc has not "turned out fine".
I consider the limiting of access to certain types to be a very wise thing to do. The limited circle is one of the reasons it is so respectful here. And after all, INTJs do prefer a homogeneous group. But it's not necessary to limit it to INTJs. I think all INxx types could be allowed and it would continue to be a nice place.
If one is in the mood for diversity, one can always go over to MBTICentral.
I don't think it's necessary to limit types at all.
IMO if they want to come, they should get to come, but they should abide by whatever unspoken laws that are in effect. It's just like having a guest in the house, we will respect their views, but they shouldn't push it and expect us to let them run things the way they usually do.
I think if anyone were to come and start acting unacceptable we'd simply collectively work against him/her whether by ignoring him/her or by pwning them with our brilliance. :thumbsup: They can then choose to leave, or stay and keep their potty mouth shut.
The Rose
12-02-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't think it's necessary to limit types at all.
IMO if they want to come, they should get to come, but they should abide by whatever unspoken laws that are in effect. It's just like having a guest in the house, we will respect their views, but they shouldn't push it and expect us to let them run things the way they usually do.
I think if anyone were to come and start acting unacceptable we'd simply collectively work against him/her whether by ignoring him/her or by pwning them with our brilliance. :thumbsup: They can then choose to leave, or stay and keep their potty mouth shut.I understand what you're saying, and I would agree with you except, I'm not sure that method is effective.
The part of your comment that I bolded mentions a frame of mind that INTJs apparently carry with them for the most part, but not all types think that way. This phenomenon is being discussed in the "chameleon" thread. So while INTJs respect the ground rules of other people, I think some other types don't care about that at all.
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I understand what you're saying, and I would agree with you except, I'm not sure that method is effective.
The part of your comment that I bolded mentions a frame of mind that INTJs apparently carry with them for the most part, but not all types think that way. This phenomenon is being discussed in the "chameleon" thread. So while INTJs respect the ground rules of other people, I think some other types don't care about that at all.
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Well what types would you say don't care? < Never mind that, you already mentioned which types...
But my point is:
I don't think we can generalize it to the point where we exclude entire types. The type may be less likely to care, but it doesn't mean they haven't learned to correct that.
Lucid
12-02-2007, 11:44 AM
I usually think of it in Kantian terms due to how much I agree with his works on metaphysics (remember that it is impossible to exist and to think without thinking about something - no mind could exist for itself without at least having had experiences), but it could be termed Cartesian too since he was the first to talk about such things. But on the other hand, it could also be solipsistic, Russellian (with his brain in a vat analogy), or whichever word you may want to throw around. Subjectivistic is perhaps the best term, that's at least what I use when going more serious about it.
In the philosophy classes I have taken, such thinking is usually called "Cartesian." I'm sure that we could call it any number of things. If you know what I'm trying to say, and think that it could be termed "Cartesian" then why are you correcting me?
I consider the limiting of access to certain types to be a very wise thing to do. The limited circle is one of the reasons it is so respectful here. And after all, INTJs do prefer a homogeneous group. But it's not necessary to limit it to INTJs. I think all INxx types could be allowed and it would continue to be a nice place.
You know, INTJs can be pretty rude themselves.
BlackHawk
12-02-2007, 12:57 PM
I think maintaining an open forum is fine on the whole. Not many non-INTJs stumble upon this site anyway, and if any individual does cause trouble, Jezebel can ban him/her, right?
Jezebel
12-02-2007, 02:32 PM
The INTJ forum will never be exclusive to INTJs or any other types. INTJs will never have special priveleges or power over nonINTJs.
The fact that this is an INTJ forum should be enough to attract a group that is predominantly INTJs. Regardless of how many nonINTJs join in the future, we will not be driving them away from the forum. If I catch anyone attempting this or attacking someone over their personality type, it is that person that will be penalized. INTJ or not.
It is unrealistic to expect an exclusive type forum. It is not possible to assess each member's type accurately over the internet. I do not want members attacking other members for not typing themselves correctly. I do not want members pretending to be INTJ to be treated fairly. I want members to be able to question the accuracy of their type without feeling like they will suddenly be treated differently if they change it. If anything, attempts at exclusivity hurt the integrity of the forum.
If you come here to meet other INTJs or discuss topics INTJs will generally be interested in, you might enjoy it here. If you come here to feel special over your personality type and gain a sense of entitlement, you might not. If you're seeking exclusivity and are annoyed that another type disagrees with your viewpoint, too bad. My annoyance with this group mentality extends to any groups people categorize themselves with to make them feel better than other people. I find the need for such validation to be distasteful and will not be supportive of such behavior on this forum.
HackerX
12-02-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't understand what you're saying. INTPc has not "turned out fine".
I consider the limiting of access to certain types to be a very wise thing to do. The limited circle is one of the reasons it is so respectful here. And after all, INTJs do prefer a homogeneous group. But it's not necessary to limit it to INTJs. I think all INxx types could be allowed and it would continue to be a nice place.
If one is in the mood for diversity, one can always go over to MBTICentral.
What I was saying was that INTPcentral was for a long time what Jezebel hopes this place to be. There was no concerns about different types, all types were welcome and it was an interesting place to be. But slowly people starting saying, this is INTPcentral, this should only be for INTP's. INTPcentral should be exclusively for INTP's. A whole lot of people who had been around a while though knew what a bad idea this was, but still, groups/cliques formed and started pushing non INTP's around anyway (why do you think MBTIcentral was formed in the first place?). It got out of hand and thus INTPcentral is as it is today. Recognised that sequence of events in your own arguments?
What I'm trying to say is that, a lot of people here have been there, done that. And Jezebel doesn't want it repeated here.
I'm here because INTP's and INTJ's are a lot more similar than you seem to think. I know quite a few INTJ's and get along with them just fine. I've done the screaming matches and the arguments that feel like your bashing your head against a brick wall trying to convince the other your right. But over time, better experience and knowledge about others (regardless of type) shows that regardless of type, healthy debate is more than possible, no matter what side you sit on. And I have sat for hours debating with my own INTJ (actually, any NT makes for a good debate) friends, against them and there own opinions, will no ill effects at the end, simply because we both knew that, knowing each other, we could keep the debate going and come up with some pretty amazing stuff.
The Rose
12-02-2007, 05:30 PM
I am no expert.
We were just throwing out ideas.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anybody.
INTJoe
12-02-2007, 06:28 PM
lol, it's not an INTJ thing. ANd besides, there are plenty of other types on here which is great.
I think it's that there is a mutual respect around here, like the people you are talking to are either INTJ, or are here to learn about INTJ's for the most part. I feel like I need to be on my best behavior, but I will surely flame someone once in a while.
Plus, most of the worst flaming you see is on sports forums, and we don't do much talking about sports here so it's pretty tame. You don't get irrational biased sports fans just towing their team's line.
Meyer
12-02-2007, 10:11 PM
To paraphrase Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse "Your polite until its time to not be polite". I don't think any of us here seem to be interested in pushing anyone else here to that point. It seems we are all here to learn in one capacity or another.
rwyatt365
12-03-2007, 05:19 AM
I appreciate the fact that most (if not all) people posting here tend to be rational and reasonable irrespective of type. So far, we've created a "culture" here that promotes an exchange of ideas in a respectful manner – kudos to all.
"Type-profiling" is not a good (or fair) way to proceed. Doing so limits the diversity of the forum and hinders those that might come here to listen, observe and learn. Perhaps, as others participate the "cold-hearted bastard/bitch", INTJ stereotype can be softened into a more realistic view (we have more dimensions to our character than people realize).
If anything, we all should be aware of any individual (regardless of type) that seeks to inject "drama" into the forum. As long as no one allows themselves to be pushed, pressured, or bullied into untoward exchanges we can continue to enjoy our "little slice of heaven" here on the 'Net.
I appreciate the fact that most (if not all) people posting here tend to be rational and reasonable irrespective of type. So far, we've created a "culture" here that promotes an exchange of ideas in a respectful manner – kudos to all.
"Type-profiling" is not a good (or fair) way to proceed. Doing so limits the diversity of the forum and hinders those that might come here to listen, observe and learn. Perhaps, as others participate the "cold-hearted bastard/bitch", INTJ stereotype can be softened into a more realistic view (we have more dimensions to our character than people realize).
If anything, we all should be aware of any individual (regardless of type) that seeks to inject "drama" into the forum. As long as no one allows themselves to be pushed, pressured, or bullied into untoward exchanges we can continue to enjoy our "little slice of heaven" here on the 'Net.
Amen...
Wait... I'm not religious...
Oh well, amen anyway....
mind_wander
12-03-2007, 06:52 AM
The INTJ forum will never be exclusive to INTJs or any other types. INTJs will never have special priveleges or power over nonINTJs.
The fact that this is an INTJ forum should be enough to attract a group that is predominantly INTJs. Regardless of how many nonINTJs join in the future, we will not be driving them away from the forum. If I catch anyone attempting this or attacking someone over their personality type, it is that person that will be penalized. INTJ or not.
It is unrealistic to expect an exclusive type forum. It is not possible to assess each member's type accurately over the internet. I do not want members attacking other members for not typing themselves correctly. I do not want members pretending to be INTJ to be treated fairly. I want members to be able to question the accuracy of their type without feeling like they will suddenly be treated differently if they change it. If anything, attempts at exclusivity hurt the integrity of the forum.
If you come here to meet other INTJs or discuss topics INTJs will generally be interested in, you might enjoy it here. If you come here to feel special over your personality type and gain a sense of entitlement, you might not. If you're seeking exclusivity and are annoyed that another type disagrees with your viewpoint, too bad. My annoyance with this group mentality extends to any groups people categorize themselves with to make them feel better than other people. I find the need for such validation to be distasteful and will not be supportive of such behavior on this forum.
Ok, if I got hate e-mail, glad to let you know. Checked my email, didn't get any yet. Also, I know there are some displaced non-INTJ's, so glad to point them into the right place. Since, I do have some afflitiate with some other websites. It shows INTJ's, depending on the time, glad to show other non-INTJ's or INTJ's there is hope for that person, regardlesss of the differences or similarities. I know that feeling, so uh I don't understand you. GET OUT! Geez, I get the big picture, all you have to do say it and don't have to wait until now. Glad to leave. [This is what I'm referring too]. Yeah, glad to lean a hand, but I am not your guardian angel, but just point you off to where you need to be; keeping the intregrity of the iNTJ forums.
I'm already know that heading over the odd INTJ sections already. So for those odd INTJ members on here, kinda stand out from within INTJ's forums. Do not fear, you can come out now. So you don't felt that your the only one who alone out in the cold; I know there are some in here hiding. But, I do have mutual respect for all other INTJ's and non-INTJ's types, in here because I wanted to learn more about myself development and other personality types and deal or faced the problems in front of me. Go glad Jez, set this up for me :) Happy INTJ camper.
Max T
12-03-2007, 07:35 AM
The INTJ forum will never be exclusive to INTJs or any other types. INTJs will never have special priveleges or power over nonINTJs.
The fact that this is an INTJ forum should be enough to attract a group that is predominantly INTJs. Regardless of how many nonINTJs join in the future, we will not be driving them away from the forum. If I catch anyone attempting this or attacking someone over their personality type, it is that person that will be penalized. INTJ or not.
It is unrealistic to expect an exclusive type forum. It is not possible to assess each member's type accurately over the internet. I do not want members attacking other members for not typing themselves correctly. I do not want members pretending to be INTJ to be treated fairly. I want members to be able to question the accuracy of their type without feeling like they will suddenly be treated differently if they change it. If anything, attempts at exclusivity hurt the integrity of the forum.
If you come here to meet other INTJs or discuss topics INTJs will generally be interested in, you might enjoy it here. If you come here to feel special over your personality type and gain a sense of entitlement, you might not. If you're seeking exclusivity and are annoyed that another type disagrees with your viewpoint, too bad. My annoyance with this group mentality extends to any groups people categorize themselves with to make them feel better than other people. I find the need for such validation to be distasteful and will not be supportive of such behavior on this forum.
*snivel*
We have lost a sweet cat called Jezebel.
We got her as a wide-eyed kitten (her first avatar: a window into the soul).
Then she matured into a fully-grown cat partially hiding behind a tree (second avatar).
Now she's gone away. (Actually, good avatar choice. Just like mine!).
:-) J/k.
Surely the increase in numbers of other types is a bit of a non-issue.
There'll be roughly the same percentage of INTJ to non-INTJ as there was when we started.
In fact, cherish the non_INTJs, since most likely the % of non-INTJs will diminish as there will likely be a greater rate of INTJs joining the forum in the future than the rate of non-INTJs joining.
And non-INTJs add depth and perspective. Stops us taking ourselves too seriously.
Otherwise, differentiating types starts to resemble scenes from the book "Lord of the Flies" (boys trapped on island, power struggle, boys split, morals break down, boy eats boy, boy makes 30,000 ton oil tanker and is set free... I think).
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As long as we don't have any poor, confused introductory posters typing XNXX... then again, we could soon analyse their postings and fill in the blanks, if they wished!
Anyone seen a conch shell around here?
(from Lord of Flies)
mind_wander
12-03-2007, 09:03 AM
*snivel*
We have lost a sweet cat called Jezebel.
We got her as a wide-eyed kitten (on her avatar: a window into the soul).
Then she matured into a fully-grown cat partially hiding behind a tree.
Now she's gone away.
(Actually, good avatar choice. Just like mine!).
:-) J/k.
Surely the increase in numbers of other types is a bit of a non-issue.
There'll be roughly the same percentage of INTJ to non-INTJ as there was when we started.
In fact, cherish the non_INTJs, since most likely the % of non-INTJs will diminish as there will likely be a greater rate of INTJs joining the forum in the future than the rate of non-INTJs joining.
And non-INTJs add depth and perspective. Stops us taking ourselves too seriously.
Otherwise, differentiating types starts to resemble scenes from the book "Lord of the Flies" (boys trapped on island, power struggle, boys split, morals break down, boy eats boy, boy makes 30,000 ton oil tanker and is set free... I think).
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As long as we don't have any poor, confused introductory posters typing XNXX... then again, we could soon analyse their postings and fill in the blanks, if they wished!
Anyone seen a conch shell around here?
I do agree with you on this one, we do need some non-INTJ, which helps gives us another point of view, plus INTJ can build on that; its up to you to decide, which way to go. Thanx, for bring that up Max T; see now this forum is turning into a most polite message board ever.
Promotion on Devotion on How to Get More Unique personalities out there to help INTJs become as a whole unit; INTJs like to ignore the small variables, but they do play a big part in this personality type society.
toonia
12-03-2007, 09:48 AM
is it just me or is everyone here incredibly respectful of each other, more so than any other online community I've ever been involved in. I don't know if because we all are they same personality type, or if an actual INTJ trait. I consider myself polite almost to an extreme, what about you guys?
I have encountered stereotypes that the Jness makes for more harsh dialog and some even suggest that a group of INTJs would produce conflict. I'm not surprised that the boards here tend towards congeniality. In the larger picture it is more efficient. Unnecessary conflicts drain energy without apparent benefit. However, I don't think INTJs are going to waste energy being polite if the situation doesn't call for that. That is what I value about INTJs. They are direct and efficient. You don't have to waste time mucking through conflict, but you also don't have to second guess or peel away layers of social decorum to find the true meaning.
OneBadMother
12-03-2007, 10:15 AM
As long as we don't have any poor, confused introductory posters typing XNXX... then again, we could soon analyse their postings and fill in the blanks, if they wished!
Of course, if ever we do somehow get a dictatorship of type going on, a lot of us'll just replace the "offending" letter with an X anyways. XD Though it might be difficult to pull off for ENFP is curious.
The Many
12-03-2007, 10:28 AM
In the philosophy classes I have taken, such thinking is usually called "Cartesian." I'm sure that we could call it any number of things. If you know what I'm trying to say, and think that it could be termed "Cartesian" then why are you correcting me?
Since I'm arrogant idiot. You win. :p
More seriously though, since I thought of it as Kantianism since that is the way I usually think of it. I haven't studied this (I mean, exactly this topic) academically though, so once again, you win.
Ohh, and I much agree with Jezebel on that everyone should be allowed in.
Lucid
12-03-2007, 10:38 AM
Since I'm arrogant idiot. You win. :p
More seriously though, since I thought of it as Kantianism since that is the way I usually think of it. I haven't studied this (I mean, exactly this topic) academically though, so once again, you win.
I didn't know it was a contest, I was just confused :p
Philosophy is my minor, but I've mostly only studied Kant in relation to his works on ethics, but I like him a lot and look forward to studying his works on metaphysics next semester in my metaphysics class. :)
The Many
12-03-2007, 11:37 AM
I didn't know it was a contest, I was just confused :p
Philosophy is my minor, but I've mostly only studied Kant in relation to his works on ethics, but I like him a lot and look forward to studying his works on metaphysics next semester in my metaphysics class. :)
Not a contest, just my way of getting it across. Anyway what IS a contest is spelling correctly, so I'm quite pissed off at me just having gone "I'm arrogant idiot" without an "an" in between. Punchlines just never work when you spell them wrong...
Anyway I look forward to reading more philosophy academically too, possibly getting some papers out there. I have too many ideas not to get them publicized... in fact I have a couple of ideas for books to write, and then I'm only 19 to boot so I should have the time to start working more seriously with it. And as to Kant's metaphysics, they are much better than his ethics.
Lucid
12-03-2007, 12:18 PM
Not a contest, just my way of getting it across. Anyway what IS a contest is spelling correctly, so I'm quite pissed off at me just having gone "I'm arrogant idiot" without an "an" in between. Punchlines just never work when you spell them wrong...
Chill, it happens to the best of us. Unless you're a grammar-bot. In which case I'll be reporting you to the CIA. And using you to correct my homework.
The Many
12-03-2007, 12:42 PM
Chill, it happens to the best of us. Unless you're a grammar-bot. In which case I'll be reporting you to the CIA. And using you to correct my homework.
A grammar-bot with a will of its own? Interesting concept there... I wonder what kinds of corrections it would come up with. I think that if it was reported to the CIA, it would try to sneak into your teacher's computer, find out everything about him/her and then use those facts to change what you wrote into something entirely different. I assume not-particularly-cryptically hinting at your sexual interests in the teacher's dog and significant other, as well as insulting him/her as an aging, balding goat may be parts of it, though. :)
rwyatt365
12-03-2007, 01:02 PM
A grammar-bot with a will of its own? Interesting concept there... I wonder what kinds of corrections it would come up with. I think that if it was reported to the CIA, it would try to sneak into your teacher's computer, find out everything about him/her and then use those facts to change what you wrote into something entirely different. I assume not-particularly-cryptically hinting at your sexual interests in the teacher's dog and significant other, as well as insulting him/her as an aging, balding goat may be parts of it, though. :)
That's not a grammar-bot, that's a Jerry Springer-bot!
The Many
12-03-2007, 01:22 PM
That's not a grammar-bot, that's a Jerry Springer-bot!
Good for me then that I'm not a grammar-bot. If there is one TV show in the world that I hate, it's Jerry Springer. It would however be quite hilarious if someone made him sit in the chair himself... or at least sentence him to death for crimes against humanity.
Lucid
12-03-2007, 03:32 PM
I assume not-particularly-cryptically hinting at your sexual interests in the teacher's dog and significant other, as well as insulting him/her as an aging, balding goat may be parts of it, though. :)
How did you know all that about me and my teacher? :stunned:
The Many
12-03-2007, 04:59 PM
How did you know all that about me and my teacher? :stunned:
I didn't. I was only trying to come up with some funny analogies. :)
I did, however, know that you would reply with some sarcastic remark, but I have found that playing along with them is the best way to get out of them. But what was up with that CIA thing anyway?
Lucid
12-03-2007, 05:02 PM
I didn't. I was only trying to come up with some funny analogies. :)
I did, however, know that you would reply with some sarcastic remark, but I have found that playing along with them is the best way to get out of them. But what was up with that CIA thing anyway?
Why would you want to get out of my joke about the being attracted to my teacher's dog?
And I don't know about the CIA. I just think that any time you bring the CIA into a joke it increases the humor. At least for me it does, and that's really what matters at the end of the day. :)
BTW, I didn't mean for any of those jokes to be at your expense. It was all good-natured on my end and hopefully it came off that way.
The Many
12-03-2007, 05:16 PM
Why would you want to get out of my joke about the being attracted to my teacher's dog?
And I don't know about the CIA. I just think that any time you bring the CIA into a joke it increases the humor. At least for me it does, and that's really what matters at the end of the day. :)
BTW, I didn't mean for any of those jokes to be at your expense. It was all good-natured on my end and hopefully it came off that way.
Ohh, please don't apologize. It was funny... I mean, if I'm not sensitive enough to notice that I come off as arrogant (this is only what I've been told) I'm really not sensitive towards most jokes either. In fact I usually score 100% intuitive and will often throw around self-deprecating jokes that others will take as me having a bad self-esteem.
And another thing too... I love this sentence: "At least for me it does, and that's really what matters at the end of the day." Just thinking about that and comparing it to the ENFJ criticism thread proves many points... :lol:
Meyer
12-03-2007, 06:46 PM
You guys do see the irony here right.:)
Lucid
12-03-2007, 08:45 PM
You guys do see the irony here right.:)
:thinking:
Call me unobservant, but no. What's the irony??
HackerX
12-03-2007, 09:45 PM
What's the irony??
An adjective used to describe the amount of ferrous content an object has.
e.g.
"That pipe you're bashing me over the head with is irony."
Meyer
12-03-2007, 11:36 PM
:thinking:
Call me unobservant, but no. What's the irony??
One of the very few "almost arguments" I have seen on this site in a thread about how polite and nonargumentative this forum is. Amusing to me but I have come to accept that I am a bit "off".
One of the very few "almost arguments" I have seen on this site in a thread about how polite and nonargumentative this forum is. Amusing to me but I have come to accept that I am a bit "off".
Hrm...
actually there are quite a but of almost "argumentative" things like these...
It just never ever escalates to "you're dumb" comments or somthign else like it that makes it a fight.
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