Culture and INTJ

[Thistle]

Just a thought..... And lashings of stereotypes (my apologies)

I've worked predominantly in the UK and in NYC, USA. Working in the UK seems more 'natural' to me than NYC, predominantly because I think the British are typically more 'I' than 'E' (or, at least, less extreme 'E's'). Therefore, is there a culture out there that is a 'best fit' for the INTJ preference?

T.

[Hdier]

It's called heaven, LOL.

[Thistle]

aye, perhaps it is!

[AnandaMeansBliss]

I have always thought that, in general, U.S society favors extroverts over introverts. And I guess by that I mean popular culture. I may be tempted to say that European countries may value the introvert more. It might have to do with the cultural ethos of the country. I think the age of European countries definitely has something to do with it. When I think of the time I spent in Spain, I recall that living a social and extroverted life was something that seemed ubiquitous. But then I think: a few miles away from my apartment sat the Prado and the Palacio Royal. To me, I am just amazed and how much history, in terms of sheer years, a country can have...and then I think about what happened in those years. So many movements and counter-movements gives one pause to reflect on the possibility and nuance of life and yet still encourages us to act and participate in it.(I think its because the Iberian peninsula housed so many different cultures carthaginians, Phoenicians, moors, jews....) I have always gotten the feeling that Spaniards live a life of "static vitality." Perhaps, its not that Spain and Europe are more introvert friendly....maybe its just more balanced in general? Anyway, just some thoughts.

[Hdier]

Yeah, I read somewhere (I forget where; can someone site this if they do) that the recent presidents that have been elected have all been introverts as well.

[Myrak]

Just skimming through my Japanese textbook, found this;
"Being shy is not looked down on as a sign of immaturity in Japan, but is regarded as an attractive quality, especially when it concerns romantic feelings."
and it goes on about how men are expected to control their expressed emotions, but it is permissible to cry at times because it shows human feeling, rather than weakness. 'Tis quite interesting. Also says how body language is very important.

In the month I spent over there, I felt it very comfortable to be my non-talkative self and just fit in. It was a refreshing change, I must say.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

Yea, as I was writing my bit on Spain, I forgot to mention Japan. Politeness and harmony seeking is definitely a way of life. Those non-talkatives like us may fit right in.

[The Rose]

Oh really. I thought the typical Brit was an ESTJ.
Maybe an ISTJ I suppose.

...but all that war-mongering...

[rwyatt365]

Just skimming through my Japanese textbook, found this;
"Being shy is not looked down on as a sign of immaturity in Japan, but is regarded as an attractive quality, especially when it concerns romantic feelings."
and it goes on about how men are expected to control their expressed emotions, but it is permissible to cry at times because it shows human feeling, rather than weakness. 'Tis quite interesting. Also says how body language is very important.

In the month I spent over there, I felt it very comfortable to be my non-talkative self and just fit in. It was a refreshing change, I must say.
I've never been to Japan, or anywhere in Asia but my impressions are that (stereo)typical Asian culture would be more INTJ-friendly than US culture. Perhaps that accounts for the (apparent) high occurance of Asian, and Asian-descendant participants on this forum?

[Thistle]

Although I haven't visited Japan, what has been said about the 'I' bit makes sense. But, I wonder how the 'T' rather than 'F' bit would fit in....

I've had a look at a 'generalist' description of an INFJ:

'Succeed by perseverance, originality and desire to do whatever is needed or wanted. Put their best efforts into their work. Quietly forceful, conscientious, concerned for others. Respected for their firm principles. Likely to be honoured and followed for their clear visions as to how best to serve the common good'

Relating this to a few areas such as the advances the Japanese made in manufacturing (Lean, JIT etc), their 'kaisen' (?sp - continuous improvement) approach to work, respect in others, family models etc. etc. etc., it doesn't sound too off the mark. What's more, I think I could relax with an INFJ.

Think a vacation is in order....

[Daniel]

Switzerland and Germany....logical, efficient, engineering, intj friendly.That's how I see these countries.

[Persephone]

I have always thought that, in general, U.S society favors extroverts over introverts. And I guess by that I mean popular culture. I may be tempted to say that European countries may value the introvert more. It might have to do with the cultural ethos of the country. I think the age of European countries definitely has something to do with it. When I think of the time I spent in Spain, I recall that living a social and extroverted life was something that seemed ubiquitous. But then I think: a few miles away from my apartment sat the Prado and the Palacio Royal. To me, I am just amazed and how much history, in terms of sheer years, a country can have...and then I think about what happened in those years. So many movements and counter-movements gives one pause to reflect on the possibility and nuance of life and yet still encourages us to act and participate in it.(I think its because the Iberian peninsula housed so many different cultures carthaginians, Phoenicians, moors, jews....) I have always gotten the feeling that Spaniards live a life of "static vitality." Perhaps, its not that Spain and Europe are more introvert friendly....maybe its just more balanced in general? Anyway, just some thoughts.


I don't know about the rest of Europe, but I can say that the españoles are a very extroverted crowd (unfortunatedly for me). Maybe you had that feeling because Madrid is the most european city apart from Barcelona in the peninsula. But if you go to the south, for example Andalucia, you'll see that people are more extroverted. I've never lived in Madrid although I was borned there, but I don't really think that Madrid favours introverts, the city is known for the parties and bars so it has to mean something no?
about Europe being more introverted, in Spain exists the stereotype that the north of Europe are more introverted than in the south, we say that it's due to the climate, what do you think?
I'm pleased that you liked so much "my" city, I would love to be there right now an have the opportunity to visit the new collection in the Prado, it has to be so beautiful!.

[thegnat]

Oh really. I thought the typical Brit was an ESTJ.
Maybe an ISTJ I suppose.

...but all that war-mongering...

Then what do you think of the US? Something could fit us because of all the war-mongering and fear-mongering our government has done?

[The Rose]

Then what do you think of the US? Something could fit us because of all the war-mongering and fear-mongering our government has done?I am unaware of what the American stereotype is but I would think it has something to do with being lazy and drinking beer.

[Drayakir]

Russia is definitely an "I" in most places. You were supposed to mind your business, and silently judge people, but not say anything. As for the others- I'd say the average Russian has a strong sense of civic duty, but I don't know where that fits on the MBTI scale.

[The Many]

Russia is definitely an "I" in most places. You were supposed to mind your business, and silently judge people, but not say anything. As for the others- I'd say the average Russian has a strong sense of civic duty, but I don't know where that fits on the MBTI scale.

The civic duty thing fits with SJs.

Scandinavians in general, and Swedes in particular, are usually supposed to be very introverted, but also boring and unimaginative - and anything but self-confident. ISTJ or INTP sounds a lot more Swedish than INTJ... in fact The Jante Law (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and its ten commandments;

Don't think that you are special.
Don't think that you are of the same standing as us.
Don't think that you are smarter than us.
Don't fancy yourself as being better than us.
Don't think that you know more than us.
Don't think that you are more important than us.
Don't think that you are good at anything.
Don't laugh at us.
Don't think that anyone cares about you.
Don't think that you can teach us anything.

Is a concept termed by an author who most likely was INTJ.

[Mason]

Just skimming through my Japanese textbook, found this;
"Being shy is not looked down on as a sign of immaturity in Japan, but is regarded as an attractive quality, especially when it concerns romantic feelings."
and it goes on about how men are expected to control their expressed emotions, but it is permissible to cry at times because it shows human feeling, rather than weakness. 'Tis quite interesting. Also says how body language is very important.

In the month I spent over there, I felt it very comfortable to be my non-talkative self and just fit in. It was a refreshing change, I must say.

What book is that?

[Myrak]

What book is that?

Not an actual textbook per se, just something our Japanese exchange-teacher threw together for us. The pages with that quote and others have small, accompanying illustrations; and the pages are photocopied from somewhere but its not specified.

[jnpl0011]

The only place I've ever lived where I felt comfortable was Germany. German-speaking cultures tend to be more quiet, orderly, practical, and open to intuiters and new ideas as well. It is the closest thing to an INTJ heaven that I know of.

[GOD]

Just a thought..... And lashings of stereotypes (my apologies)

I've worked predominantly in the UK and in NYC, USA. Working in the UK seems more 'natural' to me than NYC, predominantly because I think the British are typically more 'I' than 'E' (or, at least, less extreme 'E's'). Therefore, is there a culture out there that is a 'best fit' for the INTJ preference?

T.

I think there's way more INTJ's in Britain than the US.

Look at the comedy, music bands, intellectual programmes and so forth.

Britain is the place for the intellectuals.

GOD added, 3 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

The only place I've ever lived where I felt comfortable was Germany. German-speaking cultures tend to be more quiet, orderly, practical, and open to intuiters and new ideas as well. It is the closest thing to an INTJ heaven that I know of.

Germans don't smile much though, and too harsh in their manners.

I was in Berlin. And to be honest its not a place that I'd want to visit ever again.

Lastly, INTJs wouldn't all get together and do what the Germans have done to other people. Also, they live for systems and stability... that sounds like ISTJ territory to me.

GERMANY = ISTJ

BRITAIN = INT and INF

[jnpl0011]

Germans don't smile much though, and too harsh in their manners.

I was in Berlin. And to be honest its not a place that I'd want to visit ever again.

Lastly, INTJs wouldn't all get together and do what the Germans have done to other people. Also, they live for systems and stability... that sounds like ISTJ territory to me.

GERMANY = ISTJ

BRITAIN = INT and INF

Forgive me for saying so, but this last bit is an ignorant comment. Germany is completely different than it once was. It is virtually a liberal haven nowadays in many ways, especially in the past 15 years. And as the "Land der Dichter und Denker", it is far from being a place for "stability". If you ever listen to the German news, all they talk about is overcoming the past and improving their laws regarding social programs and environment. Doesn't sound like strictly ISTJ territory to me. And besides, Berlin is nothing like the rest of Germany--as capital and famous cities never are. Washington, D.C. and NYC are nothing like the rest of the U.S.. This is especially true of Southern Germany where the people are pretty polite within reason.

Blaming the Germans of today as a whole for the holocaust is like blaming all american white people of today for slavery.

And on top of all of this, we are not trying to type a country (given that an attempt to do so would be completely vain), we are trying to make a case for where an INTJ would feel comfortable, unless I missed something.

[Henry]

Yeah, I read somewhere (I forget where; can someone site this if they do) that the recent presidents that have been elected have all been introverts as well.

Erm, no. They're virtually all E.

Current - no question. EsTJ
Clinton - Pshaw! ESFP FTW
Bush 1 - Probably I, but balanced
Reagan - E, no question, ENFJ
Carter - You decide ;)
Nixon - Only strongly introverted preference
Ford - Don't know him well enough
Kennedy - Strongly E

So even if I give you Ford, we're still mostly E.

[mielikki]

Kennedy was supposedly an INTJ

[Henry]

Kennedy was supposedly an INTJ

Don't know where you read that but this is bullshit. He was famous for being able to immediately connect with a wide variety of people, had a very, and had an incredible capacity for empathy even when under great levels of stress. Don't know about you, but those are things that describe me very well.

[quentin]

I've been alienated so much from "normal" society all my life that I think that if I ever found a society where I fit in and belonged it would freak me out. I don't enjoy standing apart from the crowd but to become just another member of the crowd would be even worse. I like feeling special.

[mielikki]

Don't know where you read that but this is bullshit. He was famous for being able to immediately connect with a wide variety of people, had a very, and had an incredible capacity for empathy even when under great levels of stress. Don't know about you, but those are things that describe me very well.

It was according to Wikipedia, which probably *could* make it bullshit, but typelogic.com also says JFK was INTJ.

[Henry]

It was according to Wikipedia, which probably *could* make it bullshit, but typelogic.com also says JFK was INTJ.

I'm sceptical on this. Links?

[mielikki]

I'm sceptical on this. Links?

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts._INTJs

But hey, I am far from a Kennedy expert. I was only 2 when he was assassinated, and although he was hugely popular north of the 49th parallel, I wouldn't have the same historical knowledge of the man as an US citizen would.

[Eric]

I lived and worked in Japan for 13 years. It's inimical in many ways to the INTJ personality - at least to mine. What matters there is respect for authority, however it's been arrived at, and rigid adherence to social convention.

[terencec]

The only place I've ever lived where I felt comfortable was Germany. German-speaking cultures tend to be more quiet, orderly, practical, and open to intuiters and new ideas as well. It is the closest thing to an INTJ heaven that I know of.

German is one of the most rational countries in the world. Before WWII, German was leading in Science, Physics, Philosophy, Military, Classical Music etc. They are great thinkers. I am not German and cannot speak German. German is one of the most difficult languages to learn.

I believe German is XNTJ heaven!

[jnpl0011]

Damn straight, man.

[Henry]

I lived and worked in Japan for 13 years. It's inimical in many ways to the INTJ personality - at least to mine. What matters there is respect for authority, however it's been arrived at, and rigid adherence to social convention.

Let's not forget the other lovely hallmarks of asian culture: mercantalism at any cost, total disregard for the environment, obsession with looking good and status and titles. Work constantly, save money. I wonder what personality type that sounds like?

German is one of the most rational countries in the world. Before WWII, German was leading in Science, Physics, Philosophy, Military, Classical Music etc. They are great thinkers. I am not German and cannot speak German. German is one of the most difficult languages to learn.

I believe German is XNTJ heaven!

Germany and the UK both seem very NT relative to the rest of the world. Germany was indeed the leading center of technology for many years, and its generals in the 2nd world war were broadly speaking, with the exception of Rommel, very NT.

Kindly recall the German is also the language that is most disposed towards making the tiniest of intellectual distinctions.