Revealing things about yourself to others

[niffer]

Supposedly INTJs generally keep most about themselves hidden from others. As an ENFP, I am totally the opposite.

For example, I was once taking a dump in the school bathroom last year, when two older girls walked in. I was waiting for them to leave, so I just sat there in pain, and they asked me if I was alright. I lied and said I was, then took a handful of toilet paper and crapped into it when I couldn't hold it any longer, and put it into the toilet to eliminate noise. The experience was horrible. Today, I finally got around to meeting and talking to one of the girls (she was very nice), and I told her about what happened. Apparently she didn't remember. Either way, that's just one example of the kinds of things I voluntarily tell random people daily.

And so I am wondering:

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

[prometheus]

Name, rank and serial #.

Well, actually as little as I can.

I have a whole basket of those god damned nosy "shopper loyalty cards" because it aint none of their business what I buy.................and well, it kind of turned into a hobby, I now have most of the characters from Atlas Shrugged, South Park, Firefly and many others.

[Tarrick]

Name, rank and serial #.


You give people that much? :suspicious:

[prometheus]

You give people that much? :suspicious:

:embarassed: Help, I don't know how it happens. You know they seem like nice enough people.........then next then you know Lights is labeling you as a terrorist and you got a date waterboarding at Gitmo.

[qwerty]

tried to once. Person didn't want to even try and understand. Wouldn't bother again.

[orange]

we (or at least I) don't reveal things to others (in general) about ourselfs because that hits too close to our inner world and the parts of ourselfs that we like to pretend don't exsist(like emotion and feelings).

I, as Im sure many of the others here, have found one, maybe two people from time to time when some external help is needed to put everything back in order so we can get on with life that you are willing to open up to... at least partially open up to. but after everytihg is back in order its to life as usual and the other person gets rather confused.

1)wouldnt open up at all
2)opened up all of a sudden
3)closed back up even faster than opened up.

for some reason a lot of people get confused by that.

the simple answer is that we dont like exposing our inner self to anyone, it might get hurt, so we avoid it.

[Night]

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

Strangers - very little. Such is the price of my history.

Close friends - more; yet, not to the extent that the individual would ever be in a position of dominance relative to revealed info.


My experience differs from most as it is consciously influenced (and distorted, I would imagine) by experiences that are immediately visible to me.

[mind_wander]

Supposedly INTJs generally keep most about themselves hidden from others. As an ENFP, I am totally the opposite.

For example, I was once taking a dump in the school bathroom last year, when two older girls walked in. I was waiting for them to leave, so I just sat there in pain, and they asked me if I was alright. I lied and said I was, then took a handful of toilet paper and crapped into it when I couldn't hold it any longer, and put it into the toilet to eliminate noise. The experience was horrible. Today, I finally got around to meeting and talking to one of the girls (she was very nice), and I told her about what happened. Apparently she didn't remember. Either way, that's just one example of the kinds of things I voluntarily tell random people daily.

And so I am wondering:

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

I can't helped and burst out laughing. Well, for me its really depends, as long you don't pissed me off, your on the good list or get along list. People who clicks with me, wow, but rare they are on the easily communicatable list; don't mind swapping ideas. I give you something and naturally you do the same. As for the people who annoyed you up your ***, well most of us know what to do. Majority wise, most of them are on my good list or easily communicatable list; the pissed off list, well it depends on the situation; like broken record talkers [well in my family, no choice but to leave with it].

[Myrak]

Strangers and regulars I open up to very little, just enough to have a decent (or banal, depending on the person) conversation with time to time. With my few very close friends, I open up more, probably for the fact I can actually have intelligent conversations about interesting topics with these few people. But there's still tons of stuff I keep to myself for my own personal peace of mind, and I don't just volunteer up information in any context. If stuff comes up in conversation with anyone, I will answer as much as I see fit.

[Hdier]

People know a lot about me. They know that:


I only answer them if I feel like it.
I ignore idiots
I'll randomly burst out laughing, but will seem to be utterly emotionless most of the time.
I'm better than them, academically speaking, but don't show it off (even if they treat me like I do)


I think you get the picture.

[Paul V]

I'm not sharing anything from me, other my name and age with a complete stranger. Probably not even that.

With acquaintances, I share some more, shallow information that I wouldn't mind everyone else to know (never know who's trying to talk to you just to get something compromising).

With "friends", I share more, answering their questions about me, but I never willingly give out any information unless required. Oh, and I tend to lie a lot when I give out that information. I really try to prevent it, but it's usually a reflex.

[INTJoe]

Supposedly INTJs generally keep most about themselves hidden from others. As an ENFP, I am totally the opposite.

For example, I was once taking a dump in the school bathroom last year, when two older girls walked in. I was waiting for them to leave, so I just sat there in pain, and they asked me if I was alright. I lied and said I was, then took a handful of toilet paper and crapped into it when I couldn't hold it any longer, and put it into the toilet to eliminate noise. The experience was horrible. Today, I finally got around to meeting and talking to one of the girls (she was very nice), and I told her about what happened. Apparently she didn't remember. Either way, that's just one example of the kinds of things I voluntarily tell random people daily.

And so I am wondering:

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?


So, let me get this straight. You were embarassed to be taking a dump and didn't want to make noise, so instead, you did something absurd and gross and crapped into your padded-with-toiletpaper hand then flushed it down the toilet? OK, got that. Then, weeks later, you thought it was such a good story, and were no longer embarassed about it, that you actually told the people you were self-conscious in front of the story as if it was normal. THen to top it all off, you felt the need to post about it all on a message board full of analytical types?

I don't get you. :) So. Little. Logic. In. All. Of. That.

To answer your question, I almost never let anybody "in", as I sort of tend to "self-psychoanalyze"...my...self...redundancy FTW! Anyway, yeah, I found in the past that I'd spill emotions and people would first not understand me, and then secondly give bad advice. So I said "F&ck it". I figure stuff out on my own for the most part. People can almost never tell if I'm excited or depressed. lol. I'm not very excitable. And I keep a strong facade when depressed.

I think INTJ's have an inherent need to be a pillar of strength, and showing any kind of weakness in the armor is a big no-no. Even if it's in front of friends or family. We also have an inherent need to keep from pooping into our hand. :)

[Solaris]

Hmmm....so this makes me wonder. I know I am very private. However, I am certainly an E (I can't stand solitude for long unless I really need to figure something out). I think NT's tend to be private with their personal stuff, and that it's then magnified by your I.

[cielo market]

near strangers? I share little to no information.
/is beyond aloof.

Close friends- Ummm I share trivial things. Once in a blue moon something personal. I don't like to bug people with my issues lol

[niffer]

the simple answer is that we dont like exposing our inner self to anyone, it might get hurt, so we avoid it.

Actually, my question wasn't really about sharing your "inner self", but just sharing anything personal, such as really personal ideas, thoughts, or opinions.

OM NOM NOM NOM
LOL I did realize this when I posted that. MY REASONING is that my actions and openness towards people are dictated by my current mood.

I think INTJ's have an inherent need to be a pillar of strength, and showing any kind of weakness in the armor is a big no-no. Even if it's in front of friends or family.
Ah, I can relate to this. My INTJ father has always been my pillar of strength ever since I was a young child, when my mother used to terrorize us. I would always hug him when I was upset or crying and needing comforting, but he never seemed to need to ask for any support back from me because he wanted me to feel that I could count on my daddy for anything. I have so much love and respect and appreciation for that. And so this has partially become an aspect of my personality as well. I am the most paternally-minded, protective female I know. When my friends go all girly and hug each other and say "I love you!" to each other loosely, it is very taxing on me to reciprocate that kind of behaviour. I never ask for hugs from my closest friends; I only take hugs. I do share my feelings and weaknesses with them (I typically share thoughts and opinions only with non-close friends, not feelings). They get to see my very, very NF side. But otherwise I want to remain a pillar of strength in their eyes, one whom they can depend on when all else in their world goes wrong, replicating the relationship I have with my father.

cue touching picture!:
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We also have an inherent need to keep from pooping into our hand. :)

Too much damned pride for your own good! :cool:

[ShaiGar]

I try to embarrass people by making the ploping sound have as much echo as possible. Grunting helps.

[mind_wander]

Actually, thinking about this, I do shared my personal ideas, thoughts, or opinions. Its up to the person, if he/she would understand what I am talking about. In most cases, not really; I don't necessarily give up, like their a lost cause. But, help them go through my thinking process, until they finally figure. Not sure, if this leads into an INTJ mental thinking excercise, but it really helps the other person understands what INTJ's thinking process is like. I do think, I am the rarer kind of INTJ; too complex from all different angle and mold into one answer [like 20 possibilities, into one].

There is one thing, I don't really revealed my Emergency Relationship Mental Guidebook (Very depressing, but its very logical); rare chances. I don't released it, but kind off released it by accident, last night with my ISFJ female friend, explaining there are alot of miscommunication due too, she'd did not structurally defined herself yet, as she is trying to understand what does ENFP personality think like? In most cases, I would not talk about the Emergency Relationship Mental Guidebook because for Feeler types its too much for you to handle (bring like a wideload of tissues). For me, its like a walk in the park withholding deep inner emotions, plus for some odd reasons F's comes toward my direction, so I hide it.

In trying to respond in better not to making it either confusing or worse. As I responded back, "Look here, your chances is much higher than mine's. Its say's: "INTJ's are failure in love relationships." Only a few personality types can hold up with INTJ's." So I did cracked up a joke, "So why are you keeping on taking my increased chances of meeting an ENFP's personality types, it says that INTJ's and ENFP's are perfect partners." Lol, she respond, "Back off and go find your own its all mine." I find it amusing, but I did not take these jokes seriously. Creating a comfort zone atmosphere, for her.

Maybe Niffer can comment more in here.

[Alpha Prime]

Strangers and regulars I open up to very little, just enough to have a decent (or banal, depending on the person) conversation with time to time. With my few very close friends, I open up more, probably for the fact I can actually have intelligent conversations about interesting topics with these few people. But there's still tons of stuff I keep to myself for my own personal peace of mind, and I don't just volunteer up information in any context. If stuff comes up in conversation with anyone, I will answer as much as I see fit.

This resonates with me.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

I also agree. I think I would open up a lot more if people could talk about things on the same level that I can. But even then when I share too much I get this weird feeling. I can only describe it as feeling "spread thin." I get this feeling even if I share too much with another INTJ. I tend to be passionate about what I think and what I believe, perhaps I feel like I have denigrated the valence of the thought/idea in some way. As yes, although I am an INTJ, I can use the word valence.

[orange]

Actually, my question wasn't really about sharing your "inner self", but just sharing anything personal, such as really personal ideas, thoughts, or opinions.


the word personal that preceeds the idea, thought, or opinion indicates to me that that idea, thought, or opinion would be winthin the inner-self. sorry for not understanding what you meant.

[NeonTetra]

Supposedly INTJs generally keep most about themselves hidden from others. As an ENFP, I am totally the opposite.

For example, I was once taking a dump in the school bathroom last year, when two older girls walked in. I was waiting for them to leave, so I just sat there in pain, and they asked me if I was alright. I lied and said I was, then took a handful of toilet paper and crapped into it when I couldn't hold it any longer, and put it into the toilet to eliminate noise. The experience was horrible. Today, I finally got around to meeting and talking to one of the girls (she was very nice), and I told her about what happened. Apparently she didn't remember. Either way, that's just one example of the kinds of things I voluntarily tell random people daily.

And so I am wondering:

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

:laugh: LOL! I can get quite graphic about my bodily functions and other gore and then I realize people don't want to hear that. I have very little shame and probably need to shut up.

I guess I have degrees of personal information I'm willing to share. It's funny, if people ever asked me some of the questions I ask them I'd instantly clam up and go all "WHY DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT!!!" It depends on how comfortable I feel with the person and what I think they'll be using the information for.

I don't mind revealing non-essential personal info like where I'm from, what I do for a living, where I went to school, etc. You know, small talk stuff.

[banzai]

It's not that I really care to hide much, I just don't want to go through the effort of explaining why I do things to people who aren't going to understand it anyways.

[Hypomanic]

Hmmm....so this makes me wonder. I know I am very private. However, I am certainly an E (I can't stand solitude for long unless I really need to figure something out). I think NT's tend to be private with their personal stuff, and that it's then magnified by your I.

Same. I'm an E, but I'm like 52% extroverted and 48% introverted. I don't tell strangers hardly anything. I'm secretive, but my little INTp sister, more so. I had an INTj friend who was intensely secretive, though he told me a lot of stuff as to what his plans were. All NT's are careful in choosing words. Maybe this is interrelated somehow.

[Wildflower]

So, let me get this straight. You were embarassed to be taking a dump and didn't want to make noise, so instead, you did something absurd and gross and crapped into your padded-with-toiletpaper hand then flushed it down the toilet? OK, got that. Then, weeks later, you thought it was such a good story, and were no longer embarassed about it, that you actually told the people you were self-conscious in front of the story as if it was normal. THen to top it all off, you felt the need to post about it all on a message board full of analytical types?

I don't get you. :) So. Little. Logic. In. All. Of. That.




I have noticed in my family and my in-law family that EF in particular at times it seems like they would rather die than have someone know that they have a fully functional lower G. I. tract/urinary in any way shape or form.

At the same time they have a compulsive NEED to confess eliminatory stories in vivid detail once they get to know you.


As INFP I used to be very closed mouthed about my inner life and self, but loosening up quite a bit through out my 30s on this, but not to the extent that I am really to swap bathroom battlestories. :laugh:;)

[Firelie]

If someone is interested enough to ask about my personal thoughts, ideas, experiences, or opinions, I will usually tell them almost anything they want to know.

If they don't ask, they get nothing. Nobody bothers asking most of the time though, so I'm sure I seem boring. Their loss.

[Hypomanic]

Ohh that's good for me. :D I ask every question ever imaginable, given (a relatively short period of) time.

[Meyer]

Supposedly INTJs generally keep most about themselves hidden from others. As an ENFP, I am totally the opposite.

For example, I was once taking a dump in the school bathroom last year, when two older girls walked in. I was waiting for them to leave, so I just sat there in pain, and they asked me if I was alright. I lied and said I was, then took a handful of toilet paper and crapped into it when I couldn't hold it any longer, and put it into the toilet to eliminate noise. The experience was horrible. Today, I finally got around to meeting and talking to one of the girls (she was very nice), and I told her about what happened. Apparently she didn't remember. Either way, that's just one example of the kinds of things I voluntarily tell random people daily.

And so I am wondering:

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

Please don't take this as criticism. It is definitely a compliment. I literally laughed out loud when I read this post. Whatever you are doing, keep it up. It is ,without a doubt, different enough to yield some interesting results.

[WavesSootheMe]

I don't just randomly volunteer information unless it is perhaps relevant to the topic at hand. However, I don't see the point in hiding things about myself either. If someone asks me a question, they absolutely get an honest answer. Sharing information about my past does not signify closeness to me. It's my experience. It is what it is. I think I actually will hold back responses more because I've learned to so that others don't mistake it for closeness. I will volunteer random thoughts and feelings to close friends. Strangers/acquaintances don't really get to see my feeling side at all.

[mrswentworth]

Sometimes I talk too much to people. Like talking really detailed about something meaningless..airy... pointless. But I enjoy it.
So that said, I don't think I am able to share alot with others. Cos they aren't interested in what I have to say most of the time :P

[Hdier]

Same here, I talk meaningless blather a lot, but not to strangers.

[robin.]

Logically speaking, I know it is not a good idea for me to reveal too much too fast, because things change and something you feel compelled to share right now might come back to bite you if circumstances change with that person/group in the future. I am, for the most part, very willing to talk to people when they talk to me, and I will continue the conversation, but I won't share anything of real value.

But, despite the fact that I know not to say too much, sometimes I find that I really WANT to, especially in that stage of getting to know someone where you've gotten past the awkward part, but haven't hit the area where you start to see some of their annoying aspects. I feel very compelled to practically tell my life story during that part of the relationship (platonic--no experience with romantic), and sometimes I'll daydream about hypothetical conversations in which I spill everything and I imagine all the different ways that person could respond. Thinking about it (many times over, if need be) often helps to get rid of that crazy idea of actually doing it.

There are some things about me that even my close friends don't know about, and I don't really plan on sharing anytime soon. For example, the ONE time I seriously liked a guy, I didn't tell anyone about it until I had all but rationalized the crush away. Even with people I trust, I don't like the idea that I might share something personal, and then every time they think of me, they'll see me in a different light. I don't like giving other people too much control of how they see me; I'd much rather be in control of my own image.

I would hope, though, that whoever I marry is someone to whom I feel completely comfortable exposing myself. I don't LIKE being all closed off, I simply know that I prefer it MUCH more than being exposed, given the potential consequences. I want my marriage to be a place where I don't mind giving up some of the control I hold because I have such a high degree of trust in that person.

[Hdier]

I would hope, though, that whoever I marry is someone to whom I feel completely comfortable exposing myself. I don't LIKE being all closed off, I simply know that I prefer it MUCH more than being exposed, given the potential consequences. I want my marriage to be a place where I don't mind giving up some of the control I hold because I have such a high degree of trust in that person.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except that when I daydream about spilling my guts, they usually end in-erm-a bedroom.

I especially agree with the last paragraph, especially especially the part I bolded. (though in that first sentence, I would say it's a necessity, not a hope)

[PortInStorm]

What I sometimes do, to get that feeling of "spilling the beans", is tell various parts of important parts of my life to various friends/acquiantences, never using names or telling details (anonimity is drilled into you in psychology training). This way, no one person has the whole story, no one cares enough to piece the parts together, but I feel relieved that I've told "someone". I am too paranoid, too sure that friends come and go out of your life (and who might they tell when they leave your influence?), and too covetous of my own sense of 'treasure' that no one else has (not that it's anything great, but all of the story is only mine, no one else's).

[drek996]

I am quiet for the most part. I don't feel connections to people so I rarely converse in small talk, sometimes I really like to lie to complete strangers (i don't know where this comes from since I am for the most past completely honest, to the point of rude bluntness which is why I keep quiet sometimes I guess...) I will tell them about trips and adventures that never happened and for the most part they seem captivated and never become aware of the truth. The whole time I am playing with their minds, I secretly laugh and call them stupid and dumb, haha, then I walk off and play quiet again. I can't wait till someone actually gets me to slip up or just plain says your full of crap, that conversation will be one I will get a kick out of.

People who are my friends get what parts of me I give them (the stuff of interest we share) but I don't tend to give them information that doesn't pertain to them, they seem aware of this so it isn't an issue.

And ladies to love, well... there hasn't been enough for the complete analysis of being completely exposed, but being that open, while she has the ability to crush my very being and does has left me very reserved, cold, and humble, so the next lady who breaks through the walls that keep me, hopefully doesn't crush me and leave me with a thousand tears and an even small piece of heart to cope with that kind of pain.

[Max T]

I am quiet for the most part. I don't feel connections to people so I rarely converse in small talk, sometimes I really like to lie to complete strangers (i don't know where this comes from since I am for the most past completely honest, to the point of rude bluntness which is why I keep quiet sometimes I guess...) I will tell them about trips and adventures that never happened and for the most part they seem captivated and never become aware of the truth. The whole time I am playing with their minds, I secretly laugh and call them stupid and dumb, haha, then I walk off and play quiet again.

If you 'don't feel connections to other people', how do you know they are not sympathising by kindly listening to a remote, quiet individual... then walk off and leave you to play quiet again?


I can't wait till someone actually gets me to slip up or just plain says your full of crap, that conversation will be one I will get a kick out of.

This disconfiming response you seek might never arise, since they may be sensitive not to upset your world and instead avoid further contact with you.


Certainly this is how I react in circumstances you describe.
I just quietly recall the conversation afterwards and analyse why the individual set out to deceive- adds further insight into them.

[Solnath]

I can tell if it's worth it or not. If it is, I'm more open than a datasphere. I sync so easily with certain people, it's like we've always known each other. For example, just last weekend I met a person and immediately started talking about immensely deep and personal topics. She was INsomething, TJ, perhaps as well.

[Bonnie]

Sharing things with people, particularly strangers, makes me feel really good, but only if it's reciprocated. If me and someone I meet at at market connect briefly over the extortionate price or something or other and I (or they) confess in a light-hearted way about flirting with the seller to get a discount (or whatever) and the other person recognises that and relates to it, then that makes me feel great.

But dosing out something emotional or a little bit secret to someone I've been talking to at a party or whatever doesn't seem like a bad idea at the time...it's at the end of the evening when I start to analyse everything I've done that I look back and think 'Oh my god, what a stupid thing to say, they plainly thought I was an idiot'.

Even though I know it's a bad idea when I go to the next social situation to do this again, I still get caught up in a moment and keep doing it, because I long for that connection when two people in a conversation really relate to the same thought or idea.

[Cuivienen]

How much about yourself are you willing to share with near-strangers? How much does this differ from sharing with close friends?

In the last 3 years or so I consciously tried and managed to learn how to small talk, by now I am quite good at it. So when I meet people I am perfectly able to talk to them about where I live, what I do, what I like etc. and with my NT friends I will lower the guard somewhat and talk about more important things like my beliefs, theories and - sometimes - ideas.

The really important things about myself, however, I don`t tell anyone about (sometimes very rarely my mother or a certain INTP friend whom I trust a lot), especially feelings, my thoughts about myself, my regrets and plans for the future.

Firstly this is because I don`t usually understand my feelings completely, they sometimes confuse me and I won`t have anyone know things about me which I don`t know the meaning of.
The second reason is that years ago on seperate occasions I told two of my female friends (ESFP and ESTJ) things I told them to keep in private and found out later they had let them slip to someone.

Usually I talk enough about the "unimportant" facts about me that people rarely notice what I don`t tell them.

[niffer]

Now these two are interesting points..
I am quiet for the most part. I don't feel connections to people so I rarely converse in small talk
I can tell if it's worth it or not. If it is, I'm more open than a datasphere. I sync so easily with certain people, it's like we've always known each other. For example, just last weekend I met a person and immediately started talking about immensely deep and personal topics. She was INsomething, TJ, perhaps as well.

I've given out so much about myself to the world. Friends, strangers, and near-strangers alike...perhaps it's the Fi that compels me to do this, because even though I've probably made myself look like a total moron a thousandfold times over, and I don't regret any of it. I think I may do it to give something to relate to. When people set their guards down, that is when the real communication starts, and that is what I live for.

[Solnath]

Not necessarily only something to relate to. Speaking directly catches others' off-balance and they momentarily bare their souls.

[Solaris]

...
Firstly this is because I don`t usually understand my feelings completely, they sometimes confuse me and I won`t have anyone know things about me which I don`t know the meaning of.
The second reason is that years ago on seperate occasions I told two of my female friends (ESFP and ESTJ) things I told them to keep in private and found out later they had let them slip to someone.

Usually I talk enough about the "unimportant" facts about me that people rarely notice what I don`t tell them.

The bolded bits are true for me as well. I learned, consciously or unconsciously, that if I made small talk with people, that they tend not to press for the deeper things. Just because I'm an E, doesn't mean I like giving out personal details, I'm very private with that stuff.

[quentin]

The writer James Baldwin once wrote a bit that's always stuck with me. He talked about how to be deceptively open: you reveal 95% of yourself to others, thus giving them the illusion that you're completely honest and self-revealing. However, the 5% that you hold back, that's the truly important part - that's the part of yourself that you don't reveal, the stuff that you won't ever reveal to even your closest friend. The 95% of yourself that you reveal to others is just fluff, it may seem important to others but not to you. You know yourself well enough to hold back the truly vital parts of your mind and soul. So you are able to maintain your enigmatic privacy.

I'm perhaps not expressing myself all that well, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

[niffer]

The writer James Baldwin once wrote a bit that's always stuck with me. He talked about how to be deceptively open: you reveal 95% of yourself to others, thus giving them the illusion that you're completely honest and self-revealing. However, the 5% that you hold back, that's the truly important part - that's the part of yourself that you don't reveal, the stuff that you won't ever reveal to even your closest friend. The 95% of yourself that you reveal to others is just fluff, it may seem important to others but not to you. You know yourself well enough to hold back the truly vital parts of your mind and soul. So you are able to maintain your enigmatic privacy.

I'm perhaps not expressing myself all that well, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

This is very true. Even the most open people will have 5% of them that they would, no matter what, never tell another soul in the world. I'd say it's an autonomy thing.

[Cuivienen]

The writer James Baldwin once wrote a bit that's always stuck with me. He talked about how to be deceptively open: you reveal 95% of yourself to others, thus giving them the illusion that you're completely honest and self-revealing. However, the 5% that you hold back, that's the truly important part - that's the part of yourself that you don't reveal, the stuff that you won't ever reveal to even your closest friend. The 95% of yourself that you reveal to others is just fluff, it may seem important to others but not to you. You know yourself well enough to hold back the truly vital parts of your mind and soul. So you are able to maintain your enigmatic privacy.

I'm perhaps not expressing myself all that well, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

yeah, that makes a lot of sense (Except, with me it would probably be more than five percent).

It shows how useful smalltalk is especially for INTJs: If others think they already know everything about you they don`t have any reason to "psychoanalize" you.

[rwyatt365]

So then, given the Baldwin quote, how much is off-limits to everyone and is there an intermediate level that is between the "all-access" level and the "no-access" level?

For myself, I'd say that 5-10% of myself is completely closed to everyone, no matter how close. And there is an additional 10-20% that I'd allow close friends and family to have access to. The other 70-85% I'd be willing (?) to give up to the general populace.

How about you?

[Cuivienen]

probably about 10-15 % I wouldn`t tell anyone at all, another 10-15% open only to my family and one or two really close friends and the rest is fair game.
Not that different from you after all.

[WavesSootheMe]

Hmmm, can anyone give examples of general topics that are included in this hidden 5-10+%? (I'm not asking for specifics, but if the general topic reveals more than you want, then I don't expect a response). I can only think of one for myself thus far, but maybe if I saw some more I might agree.

[rwyatt365]

Hmmm, can anyone give examples of general topics that are included in this hidden 5-10+%? (I'm not asking for specifics, but if the general topic reveals more than you want, then I don't expect a response). I can only think of one for myself thus far, but maybe if I saw some more I might agree.
OK...
- Sometimes (many times), when people say things that I think are particularly stupid, or ignorant, I bite my tongue in order not to offend. But a little voice inside is screaming "WTF, just how stupid are you - really?!" Those are the times when I get a strange look on my face, and people ask "What are you thinking?" - I don't answer (especially when it's my SO) 'cause I don't want to start WW3. For that reason people will never know how I really feel about things that they may say, or do.

- Explaining weirdness; I am different, I know that I am. I don't need anyone to point out, analyze, or highlight that I am different. So, I keep as many of my "quirks" out of sight (as best as I can). I HATE it when people try to "fix" me - I am not "broken", I am different. :irked: (and I'm not upset by my differences) So, keeping as many of those differences tucked away prevents ugly scenes.

- Now, I'm not really sure how to explain this, but...there is just an inherent need to hold something back of...everything. For some reason, I just can't tell every detail about every thing. It's like, if I "tell all" I will have given everything that I am away to someone else - then they "own" me (in some crazy kind of way). If I hold back a piece of information (even a tiny bit) then there's a piece of me that is still free. Is that weird?

[Hdier]

I'd say that I keep at least 13% of myself back at all times, usually I keep back 75-98% in public, and 28-36% with close friends family. Oh, and about 43% with acquaintances. That was confusing, wasn't it?

Totally by myself or on the internet: .3% This is how much I believe I subconsciously hide from myself. On the internet, it does not ‘feel’ like I’m talking to other people.

With a few close people: 20-30% I need privacy, but I trust the people close to me, and am not as ‘guarded’.

With a lot of close people: 30-35% I would be feeling more uncomfortable, causing my to be more ‘guarded.

With a few strangers: 35-40% Less people would be more comfortable for me. However, they are still strangers and not to be trusted.

In public: 88-99% A lot of people not to be trusted. Great.

There. That is (I hope) less confusing, and it is more accurate (I put more thought into it). The most anyone would ever see of me (barring the internet) is 80%. The least is 1%.

[WavesSootheMe]

First off, thanks for your insight! :)

Sometimes (many times), when people say things that I think are particularly stupid, or ignorant, I bite my tongue in order not to offend.

I completely get that. I keep a lot of those sorts of my thoughts to myself. Especially at work. Even if everyone else is venting, I'm the diplomat. I'll even actually throw another perspective in there to get them questioning their thoughts. Like today they were going off on how this substitute wouldn't stop talking. She annoyed me too, but I, instead of joining in, simply pointed out that she lives alone with cats and probably doesn't get the chance to chat except when out working. That being said, I don't count these thoughts as something about myself nor do I keep it secret at all times from everyone. I'll probably go home and let it out to my roommate or other friends that will never see those people.

Explaining weirdness; I am different, I know that I am. I don't need anyone to point out, analyze, or highlight that I am different. So, I keep as many of my "quirks" out of sight (as best as I can).

I am unapologetically myself. Perhaps it's different for girls. I love my quirks and they're often found endearing or "cute." I never try to hide them and I often point them out. I don't like it when people try to fix me either, but I just ignore them if they do. A simple behavioral principle: Ignore what you don't like and respond to what you do and you'll most likely start hearing more of what you want. It takes patience but it works. I'll often point out that different doesn't mean wrong and then let it go. Soon they'll notice what I do respond to and talk to them about and the idea of fixing me is gone.

Now, I'm not really sure how to explain this, but...there is just an inherent need to hold something back of...everything. For some reason, I just can't tell every detail about every thing. It's like, if I "tell all" I will have given everything that I am away to someone else - then they "own" me (in some crazy kind of way). If I hold back a piece of information (even a tiny bit) then there's a piece of me that is still free. Is that weird?

Does it matter if it's weird? :)

I guess I don't think of information about myself and my life as all of myself. What I can tell someone about my life and my experience seems like only a small part of knowing me inside and out. Really knowing me only comes with time and lots of interaction, and this is where I may be guarded. Someone else said something about INTJs not liking to share their weaknesses. I don't mind sharing my mistakes/weaknesses, because I know that I'm going to learn from them and improve upon them in the future, but I HATE for people to actually see me in a moment of weakness.

If I hold back information, it's situation-dependent. With the exception of information on bodily functions and the like, it's never because it's something I don't want to reveal. My sister, my best friend, my roommate and if I have one at the time, my serious boyfriend are privy to 100% of what I can tell them. Other friends are privy to it all as well, but there are fewer occasions and reasons to talk about everything. Strangers are even privy to most of this, but as I've said I'll hold back based on social convention. The rest of my family can vary. There are obvious topics to avoid with my strict Catholic father and 16 year old brother and even my 23 year old brother. My mother knows more but she, like my father, still chooses denial on many topics. Last, I don't reveal much about my social life at work. I like to keep my personal and professional lives separate (especially since I work with kids and overanxious parents).

[Hdier]

I just realized that I forgot to mention something. If their is an attractive guy around, then I will automatically change to what I think he would be attracted to, even though I know that I have no chances with him even if he does turn out to be gay, meaning that I hide almost everything about the real 'me'. To my understanding, this is pretty normal (except for the part about it being a he rather than a she) for most people, but I was wondering if this also applies to the majority of INxJ's (we are a pretty odd bunch). Also, if the person ends up to be a total airhead or something like that, I lose all interest and revert back to hiding the same amount of 'me' that I normally would. Is that normal?

[rwyatt365]

I just realized that I forgot to mention something. If their is an attractive guy around, then I will automatically change to what I think he would be attracted to, even though I know that I have no chances with him even if he does turn out to be gay, meaning that I hide almost everything about the real 'me'. To my understanding, this is pretty normal (except for the part about it being a he rather than a she) for most people, but I was wondering if this also applies to the majority of INxJ's (we are a pretty odd bunch). Also, if the person ends up to be a total airhead or something like that, I lose all interest and revert back to hiding the same amount of 'me' that I normally would. Is that normal?
Hdier, there's a whole thread about INTJs being chameleons (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) you might want to check out.

[Paul V]

So then, given the Baldwin quote, how much is off-limits to everyone and is there an intermediate level that is between the "all-access" level and the "no-access" level?

For myself, I'd say that 5-10% of myself is completely closed to everyone, no matter how close. And there is an additional 10-20% that I'd allow close friends and family to have access to. The other 70-85% I'd be willing (?) to give up to the general populace.

How about you?

10% with anyone.

25% with acquaintances.

45% with friends.

60% with family.

75% with real friends.

90% with someone I'm in love with.

Unsure percentage with someone I truly love. It largely depends on the percentage they share with me. Whatever percentage they share with me compels me to share the same with them.

[Pinkie]

I think a lot of people I know mistake frankness for openness. I tend to be very honest about what I do and think, and so people think they know me very well, but in fact when it comes down to it they can hardly tell me anything about myself at all. I hate telling people things about me. I don't know why. I think it must come under 'small talk' in my mind.

[Hdier]

Small talk. Worse than what humans doing to Earth.

Well not really (Tree-Hugger Here), but it definintely ranks in the top ten for what is bad about humans.

[Obsidmus]

Hmmm I think this is where my intuition comes into play actually. I like to think of myself as being very observant of other people because I tend to be so quiet. But just by getting a sense of what type of person they are, namely if I knew who and where they hung out then that kinda influences my decision.
Lots of small little details about the person I take into account, but also see it as a test. If they can take my words with a smile then there might be a glimmer of hope that we be friends later on. But till that moment I tend to be very selective about what I tell people whom I don't know.

Aquaintances are the same way. The kinda "look before you leap" ssaying might describe my thought on this question a bit better.

[quentin]

I think a lot of people I know mistake frankness for openness. I tend to be very honest about what I do and think, and so people think they know me very well, but in fact when it comes down to it they can hardly tell me anything about myself at all.

Exactly. I suffer from excessive honesty and can be hurtfully blunt, but I'm a deeply private person.

[postman]

I hide nothing except what Im hiding, which is almost everything. Maybe it just comes down to the fact that you cannot measure your entire self with words, so some of us try, while others dont. Plus for alot of INTJs words are like dangerous blunt objects that we hit people with. Sharing our true thoughts may do more damage than help. Thus we keep to ourselves.

[Kirkaine]

I tell people as little as possible, because I'm afraid of them finding out about any of my INTJ "personality quirks".

[rwyatt365]

One other thing about this topic that just occurred to me is that I tend to avoid revealing things because other people mistake "sharing" as an opportunity to engage in meaningless conversation. Telling someone a personal tidbit about yourself is like a "gateway drug" to some people and they feel as if it's ok to start babbling on about their personal situation that you'd rather not know.

Once, when I was working in retail, a customer made a comment about purchasing a particular item because of a divorce situation. I mentioned that I understood, because I had been divorced before…am I sorry that I did that! The person then proceeded to go into a long, drawn-out monolog about their entire relationship history. And every attempt to dis-engage from them was futile. Now, I realize that they were hurting and just wanted to have a "shoulder" to cry on, but DAMN! I really didn't want to hear what they had to say. This is the kind of "emotional regurgitation" that I'd like to avoid by keeping myself to myself.

[Hdier]

You hide nothing except what you hide...that's true of everyone. Just like saying 'I don't eat except what I consume' would be true of everyone. Doesn't tell us much (or was that the whole point?)

[Cyrus]

rwyatt365:
- Now, I'm not really sure how to explain this, but...there is just an inherent need to hold something back of...everything. For some reason, I just can't tell every detail about every thing. It's like, if I "tell all" I will have given everything that I am away to someone else - then they "own" me (in some crazy kind of way). If I hold back a piece of information (even a tiny bit) then there's a piece of me that is still free. Is that weird?

Do you guys think this is due to the subconscious INTJ need to have an edge over people and thus, for people to not have an edge over us?
Personal information, is after all an edge and somewhat a commodity that can be traded to gain mutual trust in close friendships.
This is in line with the Law of Reciprocity (Bob Cialdini): Give what is _perceived_ to be important information to you and other people will feel obliged to do the same. This helps to build trust.

I'm usually rather quiet myself. Mainly because I have the need to assess whether the person is trust worthy. Level of trust = How much shared.
I find small talk excessively painful and have no interest in the latest soap/reality show on TV. ES types tend to go into these instinctively. So the initial conversation usually is a "are you gonna puke ur TV show story on me????" (Noooooooooooooooooooooooo... ;D)

[postman]

Yes, that is the point, Hdier.
You are either hiding something or you are playing a game to have people draw you out. One is wise and/or fearful and the other only a sleight of hand. Like a majician, the purpose of the show is to create anticipation in order to make what appears seem extraordinary.

Im with you Kirkaine. Our personality can seem frightening to other people because we appear to have no boundaries as to what we can assimilate (see the chameleon reference earlier in the thread). I am tirelessly trying to blend in because I am painfully aware of how alien the way I think is to other people. I can rationalize and sympathize with their thoughts, but am often alone with my own. Its like being a desert racing vehicle in a New York traffic jam. Once the crowds get over the awe, they do everything they can to stay or destroy it because they worry that it will roll over their car.





postman added to this post, 33 minutes and 20 seconds later...

I think a lot of people I know mistake frankness for openness. I tend to be very honest about what I do and think, and so people think they know me very well, but in fact when it comes down to it they can hardly tell me anything about myself at all. I hate telling people things about me. I don't know why. I think it must come under 'small talk' in my mind.

Pinkie, I think what they know about you is your intention. Alot of my friends feared me because of my frankness, but those that discovered my intention (which is always good) then grew to show protectivity over me towards those who hadnt figured it out. I am very grateful of this because its so tiring to endlessly defend myself for being me. They may not know the intimate details of my life or thoughts (because this is difficult to explain for me), but they feel certain that they can trust the core intention of my thoughts and actions, even if they think it is inscrutable. This concession shows massive generosity on their part.

[youngblooded]

Basically, I reveal some of my thoughts to anybody who is willing to listen. Which sadly, is very little. But then again, you can't reveal to much about yourself.

[Richard0612]

I never mind sharing ideas, intuitions, etc.
Feelings [the little I have!] and personal experiences are only really shared with my close family [all of whom are luckily NT/ST]. I share about 30% of myself with friends, but only when I am asked a direct question [I can't stand gossip].

[AgentofGaming]

I can tell people everything about me.
And from experience most people won't care.

However I don't think I will ever be able to describe how I feel properly or the way I think.
My family wants to know that the most.

[Uytuun]

Hmmm, I don't really know. It depends on the person. Some people seem to be able to crack me open better than others. Total strangers don't get much, but in general I'm pretty forthcoming about opinions, ideas and goofy stuff, or even embarrassing stuff. I'm direct and very honest. Of course, I compare myself mostly with friends who also tend to be I (and N). Compared to ESxx, I'm probably rather secretive. If we are talking about the inner world, I think it mostly takes time and the right type to be granted access. Since I don't fully grasp it myself, it's pretty hard to communicate about it. And like others have said: very few people care to go there anyway.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

It would depend but for the long hual I like for people in genreal to know as little about me as possiable.