INTJ - Slow learners?

[banzai]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.

[The Rose]

I am not good with doing S things.
I play the guitar but it took a long time and I hardly ever practiced.
Consequently, I am only a mediocre guitar player but I'm ok with that.
I mean I wish I was better but I'm unwilling to put in the work.
I am good enough.

[INTJoe]

I am not good with doing S things.
I play the guitar but it took a long time and I hardly ever practiced.
Consequently, I am only a mediocre guitar player but I'm ok with that.
I mean I wish I was better but I'm unwilling to put in the work.
I am good enough.


Is this prose??? lol. It kind of reads like it.

I can be a pretty slow learner, especially when it comes to somebody else trying to teach me by talking. I'm more of a visual learner than learning verbatim I suppose.

An example is this summer I was trying to learn the "hockey stop" on ice skates. It took forever to learn and it seemed like all anyone could teach was "You just gotta...I don't know...it'll just come." Nobody could really explain it well enough, not even my own ENFP brother who was giving instructional drills. Eventually I just watched enough people do it that I figured it out. All I was missing was a minor detail but it made all the difference. Once I figured it out (on my own basically), it was simple. It was just the physical doing of it. Easy.

So yeah, long story short, there are plenty of times when it takes me a long while to learn something "easy" or "common." I think there is a large disconnect with many MBTI types and the INTJ when it comes to verbal explanation. Unfortunately... :(

EDIT to add: Once I figured out how to do the hockey stop, I actually explained to my brother what the big key factor was. He was like "Ohhhh, yeah...I never realized you have to do that...". lol.

[banzai]

An example is this summer I was trying to learn the "hockey stop" on ice skates. It took forever to learn and it seemed like all anyone could teach was "You just gotta...I don't know...it'll just come."


He was like "Ohhhh, yeah...I never realized you have to do that...". lol.

I had almost that exact same experience learning how to stop and skate backwards... ;D

I think maybe since we have such rigid control of ourselves we need more details in order to do something correctly, especially something that can be done naturally (aka, without paying attention to details).

[The Rose]

Is this prose??? lol. It kind of reads like it.tee hee it wasn't meant to be

I can be a pretty slow learner, especially when it comes to somebody else trying to teach me by talking. I'm more of a visual learner than learning verbatim I suppose.

An example is this summer I was trying to learn the "hockey stop" on ice skates. It took forever to learn and it seemed like all anyone could teach was "You just gotta...I don't know...it'll just come." Nobody could really explain it well enough, not even my own ENFP brother who was giving instructional drills. Eventually I just watched enough people do it that I figured it out. All I was missing was a minor detail but it made all the difference. Once I figured it out (on my own basically), it was simple. It was just the physical doing of it. Easy.

So yeah, long story short, there are plenty of times when it takes me a long while to learn something "easy" or "common." I think there is a large disconnect with many MBTI types and the INTJ when it comes to verbal explanation. Unfortunately... :(

EDIT to add: Once I figured out how to do the hockey stop, I actually explained to my brother what the big key factor was. He was like "Ohhhh, yeah...I never realized you have to do that...". lol.You just reminded me of something. I am an auditory learner most of the time, but when my husband start explaining his plan for how to shore up the deck - draw me a picture please!

[janonymous]

I can be a pretty slow learner, especially when it comes to somebody else trying to teach me by talking. I'm more of a visual learner than learning verbatim I suppose.


my Achilles heel is learning by lectures also. even when people drag out conversations with me, it takes a huge amount of energy for me to stay focused. but i'm really quick at learning visually.

[The Many]

Strange to see so many being visual learners, I know I usually learn verbally. Of course, my intuition is so strong that it usually plays the scenario of what is being said in my mind, so I understand it that way. Every now and then it happens that I don't get what is being said though, as I have noticed when taking driving lessons.

Of course, learning practical things in general takes aeons longer than learning theoretical things...

[rocksteady]

Strange to see so many being visual learners, I know I usually learn verbally. Of course, my intuition is so strong that it usually plays the scenario of what is being said in my mind, so I understand it that way. Every now and then it happens that I don't get what is being said though, as I have noticed when taking driving lessons.

Of course, learning practical things in general takes aeons longer than learning theoretical things...

same here, many times a teacher will be explaining new material, but at far to slow a pace, and so while he talks I run through all kinds of variations in my head, and many times am able to predict what the next sentence or idea will be, without having done the reading.

Of course this gets me into trouble because many times i get ahead of myself and don't practice or study enough for the information to actually sink in. Practice practice!

[banzai]

same here, many times a teacher will be explaining new material, but at far to slow a pace, and so while he talks I run through all kinds of variations in my head, and many times am able to predict what the next sentence or idea will be, without having done the reading.

Of course this gets me into trouble because many times i get ahead of myself and don't practice or study enough for the information to actually sink in. Practice practice!

Haha, yeah, then you ask them a question and they get an irked look on their face and say... "yeah, we'll get to that in a minute" :thinking:

[Tarrick]

The best way for me to learn is retro-engineering...or at least seeing an application. From there I can derive the basics and move on.

So, "slow" is a relative term...it's more a matter of ability to learn faster or slower depending on the teaching instrument.

[Santana28]

I can't read!! Well, maybe I have ADHD or something. I have to re-read every sentence 2 or 3 times before i can process it.... needless to say, books take FOREVER for me to get through - and i generally don't finish them at all. Thats why the internet is great for me - i can read up on any topic i want in short bursts.

I really have to DO things myself to get them. I can learn by watching someone else do something, but i still prefer to get my hands dirty - the less i know about something (and the less biased i am towards it) the better i am at tearing it apart i've found.

but thats just me.

Oh, and as an odd contradiction - i have the absolute worst short-term memory. but if i commit myself to memorizing something, i can do it rapidly and picture perfect. I call it my mid-term memory.... long enough to get me through the mid-terms, but something i'll immediately forget as soon as the need for it ceases to exist :)

[ScottH]

I think I know what you are talking about, Grayscale.

My experiences are a bit different, mental rather than physical.

I seem able to learn just about any way, but need more dedicated thinking to get lectures, as I build models in my head to hold what I'm being told.

Bit I find the threshold of "getting it" is sometimes very high, as though I'm unable (more likely unwilling) to make assumptions or interpolate where I seem room for ambiguity. I don't like assumptions. If it's requested of me or necessary, I can aptly make good guesses, but generally don't count something as "known" while it still contains guesses.

[rwyatt365]

I can't seem to get the hang of OOP! Every time I've tried to assimilate it, my brain goes into "vapor lock". This has been my Achilles Heel in entering into this new age of programming.

In general, I am a visual learner. Words just float through my head. If someone wants me to understand then draw me a picture!

[GOD]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.

People that just focus in the strict task and have good memories tend to be quick on the uptake.

The linear thinkers get from point A to point B quicker than the divergents (concentric thinkers as I call them). However, over the long term the concentric thinkers build up such a huge base of connected knowledge (Intuitive framework) that they can blow the linears away on any "deep thought".

In terms of snowboarding etc, people learn quicker if they have less fear and apprehension of being wrong (or falling over etc). So, I'd say its more a function of natural aptitude and risk taking. I don't think being an INTJ has any greater or less propensity for you to be good/bad at a physical type pursuit. (INTJs don't become such by default of being less sports orientated).

[deicruxified]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.

i was called a slow learner way back when i was a kid because i don't excel in some stuff. the reason behind this is i pick a favorite course and pour my heart and time out. i was a late bloomer in math so i got poor grades there when i was a kid. that was my lowest extreme... the highest were art and science. i never got a grade lower than a+ there.

[INTJoe]

Let me clarify...my previous post.

I'm a visual learner when it comes to anything mechanical. Sports, skating, programming a VCR, changing a tire, whatever...

But in school I learn through listening to lectures. If I have a good lecturer, I would always do well in that class. It was so extreme once in college that I'd walk into one of the toughest classes we had with just a soda, no notebook or anything, and I'd just kick back and listen to my brilliant professor speak. Everyone around me (most notably the S's to be sure) would take notes frantically in that course, and they'd laugh and get mad at me for not taking notes.

In such a class I find it detrimental to take notes, as I'm not hearing the "big picture" while I'm writing. Waste. Of. Time. I need to "get" what the professor is teaching first, then verify facts later if I need to.

[INTJgal]

i'm slow compared to others at the beginning, but by the end of the thing, i'm blowing past others. (like school--i always pwn exams but tend to do below average the first test)

[Br3nti5]

Depends - I figure stuff out quicker by being presented an idea - working with the idea - then expanding/questioning the idea - then building on said idea (maybe with a new idea? or a way to look at said idea)

When I was teaching the martial arts - I had to rethink my approach for all of my different students at different levels and different age ranges; And there were still times when I was working with them that I had to create activity's to work the same skills in different ways because the first method got the point across but it wasn't the result I was looking for (especially true with kids)

[Rei]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.

I think our TJ actually makes us learn slower, but once we learn, we have a deeper understanding of it.

TJ makes us over think, it also tends to make us very rigid and stubborn. When we don't see something, we'll be rigid and get a little "wth!? how is that possible?"

[mrswentworth]

For me, yes. I've always been a slow learner. But sometimes I'm not. Depends on my whole interest in the thing and of course the person who is teaching it. If I'm given the general idea in the first place, I wouldn't have problems with learning it most of the times .

[Ijz]

People that just focus in the strict task and have good memories tend to be quick on the uptake.

The linear thinkers get from point A to point B quicker than the divergents (concentric thinkers as I call them). However, over the long term the concentric thinkers build up such a huge base of connected knowledge (Intuitive framework) that they can blow the linears away on any "deep thought".
Agree, deeper understanding definitely comes at a price on the short term. Also, because the knowledge is rooted more "deeply" the chances for conflicts are much greater. Until these "conflicts" are resolved, there can be no understanding. But once they are resolved the level of understanding is much greater because all the information gathered in the mean time was unbiased.

Even Einstein and Edison started out slow...


In terms of snowboarding etc, people learn quicker if they have less fear and apprehension of being wrong (or falling over etc). So, I'd say its more a function of natural aptitude and risk taking. I don't think being an INTJ has any greater or less propensity for you to be good/bad at a physical type pursuit. (INTJs don't become such by default of being less sports orientated).
I also think that non-S types put far less emphasis on kinesthetic learning. Especially when participating in sports, the kinesthetic feedback can be crucial. The conscious mind can only process so much data simultaneously. The next time you go ice-skating, try doing it blindfolded, you might be surprised about the results. :thumbsup:

[snoogit]

An article I saw that might shed some light.

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I think being told I was smart throughout grade school, getting As in everything, and then not caring after the 7th grade was probably what hurt my learning curve the most. I know now that if I put in a little more effort, I'd probably have learned at a faster rate.

[GOD]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.

Einstein was classified as a slow learner in his youth.

A high pattern forming individual may resist the adoption of information unless it fits into his/her framework... Hence while the linear S type kids are racing from A to B the N child is probably assessing all the permutations and how this fits into his/her understanding and logic of the world.

I guess the best analogy is the S children are lining up domino's to push them over in a set sequence, while the N children are building a jigsaw and each item must fit into the larger picture.. somewhere.

[bubbles]

An article I saw that might shed some light.

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I think being told I was smart throughout grade school, getting As in everything, and then not caring after the 7th grade was probably what hurt my learning curve the most. I know now that if I put in a little more effort, I'd probably have learned at a faster rate.

Interesting article. I never considered myself "smart" even though some people do. When I think of "smart," I usually think of people who are outstandingly smart. I always put a lot of effort into things that I have trouble with (i.e., math, physics), consequently, people think that I'm good at those subjects :rolleyes: , but I think I'm a slow learner.

[Sevs]

I tend to be incredibly fast on "academic" things especially computing related, i just pick it up and remember it forever even if i only hear it once, on the downside I am next to useless with anything involving motor skills. I do ski and snowboard but it took me ages to learn, same goes with driving.

Also I can only fully accept something when i understand it completly, i hate just accepting definitions "beacuase thats the way it is". And I drove most of my high school teachers and fellow students insane because i was constantly asking questions which went beyond the scope of the syllabus when everyone just wanted to get on with it.

I am currently learning traditional shaolin kung fu and as much as i enjoy it i am almost always the last in the class to properly learn a form. This is especially the case as in Kung fu the idea is to repeat a form 100s of times until you can do it without thinking, where other people can just intuitively do something i need to precisely think about my movements and actions. I sometimes wish i was better with all the physical stuff but then again i am sure most people would love to have my "academic" learning abilities.

[Santana28]

you know... come to think of it, i didnt really talk until i was around 4. my son is about to turn 3 and he's interesting... he knew his entire alphabet and could count to 10 by the time he was 16 months old... he is most definitely NOT slow... but his talking is not really advancing much. I have a distinct feeling that one day i'll wake up to a chatterbox who will suddenly be able to carry on complete conversations about everything... but for the time being, he only talks when he absolutely has to.

[Rei]

you know... come to think of it, i didnt really talk until i was around 4. my son is about to turn 3 and he's interesting... he knew his entire alphabet and could count to 10 by the time he was 16 months old... he is most definitely NOT slow... but his talking is not really advancing much. I have a distinct feeling that one day i'll wake up to a chatterbox who will suddenly be able to carry on complete conversations about everything... but for the time being, he only talks when he absolutely has to.

I never used to talk every much as a little kid. I was told used to squeak whenever I spoke so I was usually very quiet. Apparently my first words were "stonefish" in Cantonese. Sure sign of introversion.
I was labeled as a chatterbox in elementary school though. Mainly because I found hilarious things in the things my teacher was teaching and had to share it. By gr5-ish I stopped sharing anything at all though.

Slow at understanding? I think not. It is more likely slow at accepting.
I understand physics and math instantly while it takes me more time to grasp concepts in chemistry and microbiology.
I'm pretty good at picking up most sports/physical activities, but it's hard for me to break that threshold of being spectacular.

[robin.]

My teachers in elementary school told my parents that I had a hard time just taking a question for what it was instead of analyzing it and coming up with factors that, in my mind, would completely alter the question at hand. So yeah, I totally relate to the example the OP gave--that stride really matters!! I actually used to have a lot of problems with subtraction (now I have it with other math) for that same reason: when you have 4-2, do you start from 4 or from 3? It's clear to me now but yeah, I over-think things a lot.

[Smacknrat]

when you have 4-2, do you start from 4 or from 3? It's clear to me now but yeah, I over-think things a lot.

Great... Now I'm going to wonder if I should start from 4 or 3 from now on...

[Maitri1970]

I know this is contrary to INTJ, but has anyone found that your intellect has actually made it more difficult to learn some things?

Compare "getting it" to running from point A to B... most of us would be Olympic qualifiers for the 100m. ;D

...but what if the finish line is less than a stride in front of the blocks?

For me, one example of this was snowboarding. At this point, I'm pretty damn good, but when I started I was too rigid and overly-sensitive to movements and that made learning difficult. I actually had to be a bit stupid about it to get a hang of it.
I really, really have to want to learn something to learn it quickly. Otherwise, I'm a stubborn learner. I'm rigid because I want to determine how I learn something. I don't want the method dictated to me by someone else.

[Obstinate]

I'm great with things like English, History, Chemistry, and Spanish, but in Math I'm pretty much horrible. My teacher lectures us in that class, and maybe because there's so many thoughts in my mind, or maybe I just don't like lectures? No idea, but that class is really tough for me, and I've got a C. Every other class, I've got As. I think I learn alot better by being shown how to do something then making up theories in my head about it, and I'm sure lots of you would learn better the same. Plus, it's amusing to try to explain these theories to people and they give you this :suspicious: look, like you're speaking Yiddish. hahaha

[Antares]

I'm great with Math, Physics, Music, Art and English. I know. Weird combination. I didn't take biology yet so I can't honestly say. I currently am failing Chemistry. I'm probably getting a B or a B-. I don't know how one can be so bad on a science subject while being so good on another. Music is like a second nature to me. I can name every instrument ever stood out (even by a little) in a Symphony just by listening. I've memorized countless songs and sometimes they just won't get out of my head and I've performed in the Sydney Opera House with my Symphony Orchestra. I'm good and bad at math at the same time. While I'm fast on grasping concepts and good at applying them, I can't innovate and if I see a new kind of problem or a different version of the old one, I'm completely stumped. I'm currently on a writer's block so... Not that good at writing for now. I'm no good with sports though. Of all the sports I have attempted (which is quite a lot), I've successfully mastered 3 that I've become very good at. The rest, my skill level's at the lowest of the low in my class.

[justintj]

Same with me, more or less. I'm slow in learning new things. But when there's a rewarding value behind it, my strong will motivates me to accomplish the learning process.

[AntimonyLegault]

I've had math teachers tell me "I make math problems unreasonably harder". I know a lot of INTJ's have problems with it, but what they told me kind of makes a (little) sense; in that higher order thinking skills can sometimes get in the way when something you might see as daunting presents itself (so you unconsciously treat it like that).

[Pinkie]

I learn quickly, but I overcomplicate everything to the point where I actually can't look at a problem any more. When I was younger I had a problem with simple addition because I didn't know whether to start from (say, in the case of three plus two) three or four, if you get me. And at university now I have the same problem. I just can't accept that things are as simple as they seem.

[Kfbr]

I remember it took me like six months to learn how to drive a manual. I was way over thinking it and didn't realize how simple it was.

I actually picked up a book on how the clutch worked so I could see why I was messing it up every time.

[desg90]

I'm good at learning all kind of concepts.
But I'm a bit slow at applying them. :p

Math and Physics are two things I must learn one-on-one and I must understand everything regarding a certain maths or physics concept.
Making concepts "unreasonably harder" in order to fully understand them is part of my learning process. (Oh the irony! :rolleyes: )

That's why my marks are a bit low on those subjects. :irked:
Teachers give a nonstop lecture about three or four concepts in one hour.
The concepts might be simple, but I phase out before actually paying attention to the lecture. :rolleyes:

[karen]

I have always had a hard time focusing whenever I find that I don't care about a subject (and I can't seem to force myself to care). When I am interested however, it doesn't matter if I read, see or hear it; it get it. Perhaps this is the case for everyone though....

[desg90]

It's my case.
But, I'm not everyone....
Just another one. ;p

[errrzarrr]

I learn Visually faster and better. But i bet that's not a INTJ characteristic, is just a human characteristic.

"one Image is worth 1000 words"

Anyway, when I was at univ I noted that I was slower learning than my best friend ,a non-INTJ (something like ExFP or ExTP). Anyway, I think he learned by memorizing (like taking photographs to the text and image, so he can go for it later), my way of learning was deeper and therefore slower, looking and reasoning the why/how on it, like a mechanism/machine. So when I have to remember it later, i do it by going step by step on that machine/algorithm.
ò_ò

edit: Oh I forgot to say we graduated together and exactly with the same índice (final general qualification). I can conclude It's about Dedication and Effort!!!.

[terencec]

I think our TJ actually makes us learn slower, but once we learn, we have a deeper understanding of it.

TJ makes us over think, it also tends to make us very rigid and stubborn. When we don't see something, we'll be rigid and get a little "wth!? how is that possible?"

I have exactly same opinion as you long time ago. Since I have to think about everything (find if I can find any confliction of the author arguments/conclusions) before I can accept even the materials from the reliable sources, it actually makes me learn slower (at least as a beginner of the subject). But I will have more understanding of the materials after thinking.

[Capt57]

Sometimes doing well in school requires the ruthless application of the 80/20 rule. But I always had a hard time doing that. For instance, you know when your reading a textbook and they have all those little Grey boxed FYI crap. Well, I would read all of that, I might even get into the suggested reading that had little to do with my class. To me this is what learning really is. It does not have a time limit. True understanding is slow and hard but highly rewarding. For the most part tests seemed to cheapen that experience; apply the 80/20 rule and memorize away. But I never let the University interfere with my education.

[terencec]

Sometimes doing well in school requires the ruthless application of the 80/20 rule. But I always had a hard time doing that. For instance, you know when your reading a textbook and they have all those little Grey boxed FYI crap. Well, I would read all of that, I might even get into the suggested reading that had little to do with my class. To me this is what learning really is. It does not have a time limit. True understanding is slow and hard but highly rewarding. For the most part tests seemed to cheapen that experience; apply the 80/20 rule and memorize away. But I never let the University interfere with my education.

I saw the same problem when I was in college (i.e. I should not spend too much time to think about the materials since I have limit time to study, do the homework/projects). Getting a high test score does not necessary mean one understands well the materials. It just means they know how to study or be a test machine sometimes. It is true that true understanding is slow and hard. It is just labor of love!

[Ytterbium]

I would say I'm quite slow. Since I can't really just accept things. It must be processed somehow in my head so it becomes "my" insight rather than someone else's.
Then just suddenly out of nothing it just :idea: everything fits together.

[Yongkb21]

True. When a friend explains something to me plain and simply.. Sometimes it just doesn't click in. I then rephrase it in my own words of how I think they are trying to explain it and end up confusing them but in end end we're saying the same thing just in different context hehe.. :blank:

[pletharoe]

I've recently finished 6 months of groundschool while training as an airline pilot. The training materials (a stack of A4 folders about 4-5 foot high) were meant to be excellent. The basic concepts I could derive from my own intuition, but about half way through each chapter I had to effectively rewrite the textbook! Once I'd done that it all became crystal clear to me. My notes for the entire course were about 1.5 inches thick!

To put a very philosophical slant on it, I had to understand the whole before I understood the details. Once I understood the details, I could master the whole.

[Antares]

I'm fast on learning academic stuff, but really slow when learning life's lessons. I just lost my flute that is made of silver. My mom will have my head. Yep. It's not as if I can completely keep track of my things before, but I never learn, now do I? *sigh*

[ghmn]

I've recently finished 6 months of groundschool while training as an airline pilot. The training materials (a stack of A4 folders about 4-5 foot high) were meant to be excellent. The basic concepts I could derive from my own intuition, but about half way through each chapter I had to effectively rewrite the textbook! Once I'd done that it all became crystal clear to me. My notes for the entire course were about 1.5 inches thick!

To put a very philosophical slant on it, I had to understand the whole before I understood the details. Once I understood the details, I could master the whole.
I'm like that myself. I tend to want to learn everything around a subject before learning the subject. Problem is, when that intuition thing kicks in , then I had a hard time paying attention to the details.

I remember this being a big problem for me when I was taking calculus. The professor basically told me, 1. Treat it like a foreign laguage rather than a math, and 2. You can't really understand the "why" for A and B until you've taken C.

[Anon722]

Of course, learning practical things in general takes aeons longer than learning theoretical things...

That is terribly true. It tooks me 15 seconds to understand the strategy of the firm I used to work in. But it tooks me two 20sec long explainations, and some practise, to use the Fax properly.

[youngblooded]

Most people have labelled me as being "slow" due to the fact that I take more time to process information but actual fact, I'm just breaking down the information into something I can understand.

[Ace1337]

Here are some things that are important for me when learning new things, a lot of these things I don't have at my university and that's why I am having problems

- I need to respect the professor that is teaching me, I can only respect him if he loves his job and if he knows what he is talking about.
- Everything I learn has to make sense or be proven to me, and it has to fit into my brains network(I can't really explain this, but it's like everything im my mind is well connected and I can remember things I haven't mentioned in 5 or 10 years, people usually forget them after the exam)
- It's really hard for me to learn something that I think I won't need in life, or I will never use in life. I need to know WHY am I learning something, it has to be a good reason, and getting a good grade is not a good reason to learn something.
- I can't start from details and build a lesson, I have to know the real essence of the lesson, the big picture, and when I get that, than it's easy to build on it. When I know the essence of the lesson than all the details click, and the fascination that all these details fit into the big picture keeps me going.

[blue tie]

Ace1337 sounds similar to me. I think I'm a slow learner sometimes, especially when I'm trying to wrangle an explanation out of people. Sometimes I have to just stop them, grab the reigns and be like "is THIS what you mean?" and hopefully they will get it. It's like, a lot of times, people's explanations for things are insufficient. Or rather, they aren't matching what I expect to hear that would cause me to understand what I don't know. What would fill in the gap. Like there's a structure or pattern in my head and the explanation needs to resonate with that. If it does not, no matter how good of an explanation it is, I still won't get it.

And I'm mostly about patterns and the big picture. To me, the idea is the most important. Because ideally all of the data will just fall under that pattern. And it's only useful for reinforcing the soundness of the idea. It's not worth memorizing though.

[Mr Zip]

Here are some things that are important for me when learning new things, a lot of these things I don't have at my university and that's why I am having problems

- I need to respect the professor that is teaching me, I can only respect him if he loves his job and if he knows what he is talking about.
- Everything I learn has to make sense or be proven to me, and it has to fit into my brains network(I can't really explain this, but it's like everything im my mind is well connected and I can remember things I haven't mentioned in 5 or 10 years, people usually forget them after the exam)
- It's really hard for me to learn something that I think I won't need in life, or I will never use in life. I need to know WHY am I learning something, it has to be a good reason, and getting a good grade is not a good reason to learn something.
- I can't start from details and build a lesson, I have to know the real essence of the lesson, the big picture, and when I get that, than it's easy to build on it. When I know the essence of the lesson than all the details click, and the fascination that all these details fit into the big picture keeps me going.

Thats exactly me to a T, every point you made.

I can't learn it if I don't get a framework of it first, its motivations etc. I struggled in school because I couldnt memorize and regurgitate information: I had to really learn it, know its opposing points and why's and hows, and then it was a part of me. It made school exhausting.

I think INTJ's need much more information to learn. Makes it harder, but when we learn it, its learned and understood.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Here are some things that are important for me when learning new things, a lot of these things I don't have at my university and that's why I am having problems

- I need to respect the professor that is teaching me, I can only respect him if he loves his job and if he knows what he is talking about.
- Everything I learn has to make sense or be proven to me, and it has to fit into my brains network(I can't really explain this, but it's like everything im my mind is well connected and I can remember things I haven't mentioned in 5 or 10 years, people usually forget them after the exam)
- It's really hard for me to learn something that I think I won't need in life, or I will never use in life. I need to know WHY am I learning something, it has to be a good reason, and getting a good grade is not a good reason to learn something.
- I can't start from details and build a lesson, I have to know the real essence of the lesson, the big picture, and when I get that, than it's easy to build on it. When I know the essence of the lesson than all the details click, and the fascination that all these details fit into the big picture keeps me going.

All those things are important to me too. Sounds a lot like me actually.

Overachiever that I am, I always managed to pull it off to get the grade even if I didn't have these things in place. But in those cases, it was a lot harder, and I usually promptly forgot the information right after the exam.

I find I pick things up quickly, but they have to be concepts, not nonsensical details. Ask me to memorize a list of names or dates or places, and I'll blank. Put them in context, and I'll remember them for life, because I'll understand them.

[polysylvester]

ACE1337,
What you describe is the way I frame things as well. It may take me hours to put everything together, but then I'll know it inside out, frontwards and backwards. I went to engineering school to learn how to think. I've never regreted that. My profs told us the content was just for today's test, it was the process they wanted us to learn. The engineering method. In contrast, my wife went to medical school. They spent the first two years memorizing facts and didn't learn how to think thier way out of a soap bubble. She then spent five more years learning how practice the art. Fortunately for her she got an engineering degree first.
I can remember numbers without trying. If I've called a number twice in the last year, I probably don't need to look it up. But don't ask me to remember a name! I find it really easy to use patterns to remember things.
As long as I can put information into my universal framework it will be there for many years. I took the Professional Engineer test cold after being out of school for 10 years, just for practice. I passed it.
My teachers though I was "slow" until they did some standardized tests in fourth grade. Mostly I stared out the window and daydreamed in grade school. Eventually my teachers convinced me that I should try harder. Good teachers make a lot of difference. A good text can take the place of a bad teacher!

[qwiksilver]

I seem to be the exception to the rule here. If I put my mind to learning something I can become an expert at it (or get as educated as I need to be) really quickly.

I soak up data like a sponge. I hit certain plateaus but they don't last long.

My mechanic was shocked at my steep learning curve, both in technical and practical applications, when we started offroading together.

My big problem is that I can move too quickly and people who have been at it longer than I have don't take me seriously.

[iMiki]

Here are some things that are important for me when learning new things, a lot of these things I don't have at my university and that's why I am having problems

- I need to respect the professor that is teaching me, I can only respect him if he loves his job and if he knows what he is talking about.
- Everything I learn has to make sense or be proven to me, and it has to fit into my brains network(I can't really explain this, but it's like everything im my mind is well connected and I can remember things I haven't mentioned in 5 or 10 years, people usually forget them after the exam)
- It's really hard for me to learn something that I think I won't need in life, or I will never use in life. I need to know WHY am I learning something, it has to be a good reason, and getting a good grade is not a good reason to learn something.
- I can't start from details and build a lesson, I have to know the real essence of the lesson, the big picture, and when I get that, than it's easy to build on it. When I know the essence of the lesson than all the details click, and the fascination that all these details fit into the big picture keeps me going.


All of this applies to me.

-In middle school, I considered my English professor an "airhead". She doesn't even know how to spell words. I have to correct her almost everyday. A middle schooler correcting an adult and an ENGLISH professor. Come on, who could respect someone like that?

-Currently, in my high school, we are learning about Living Environment. My professor just keeps talking and talking and at the end, I'm like "What just happened?" That's because I think it's pointless to learn about it. Yeah, who cares about the Krebs Cycle or whatever? I'm not going to be a biologist. So what's the point of learning this? But, there are times when I am into it with topics such as global warming because this should concern me as well as others. It has essence.

I don't think INTJs are slow learners. I think they are mistaken as slow learners because certain lessons doesn't have essence to it, which leads us to daydreaming. If a lesson has an essence, that's when they get into it.

If I think a lesson is pointless, I really have to push myself to like it. My driving force is to get scholarships and get into Harvard or Yale. So I get As and A+s but then, I forget after taking the exam. That's why I was never considered a slow learner.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Anyway I think this is beside the point. I can't speak for all INTJs but I consider myself a fast learner in most areas... but if you go back and read the OP, it's about coordination and athletic ability, not intellectual pursuit. I doubt that's related to personality type, but, speaking for myself, my own athletic ability is extremely poor. So yeah, I'm a slow learner when it comes to sports or coordinated movements like dance. Is that related to intelligence? In a sense, I guess, in that there are different kinds of intelligence and physical intelligence is one sort.

[Vinado]

Strange to see so many being visual learners, I know I usually learn verbally. Of course, my intuition is so strong that it usually plays the scenario of what is being said in my mind, so I understand it that way. Every now and then it happens that I don't get what is being said though, as I have noticed when taking driving lessons.

Of course, learning practical things in general takes aeons longer than learning theoretical things...

For me learning to drive was a nightmare, took it five times ! In Europe we have the steering gear to handle but I don't think it makes that much difference.

How was it to learn driving

[ssrprotege]

- I need to respect the professor that is teaching me, I can only respect him if he loves his job and if he knows what he is talking about.
- Everything I learn has to make sense or be proven to me, and it has to fit into my brains network(I can't really explain this, but it's like everything im my mind is well connected and I can remember things I haven't mentioned in 5 or 10 years, people usually forget them after the exam)
- It's really hard for me to learn something that I think I won't need in life, or I will never use in life. I need to know WHY am I learning something, it has to be a good reason, and getting a good grade is not a good reason to learn something.
- I can't start from details and build a lesson, I have to know the real essence of the lesson, the big picture, and when I get that, than it's easy to build on it. When I know the essence of the lesson than all the details click, and the fascination that all these details fit into the big picture keeps me going.

Everything I agree except the third point; good grades are not bad, but I'd rather take rigorous courses, not easy I-can-get-good-grades basket-weaving courses. I don't mind learning knowledge for its sake, to understand 'abstract reality.' I really sound Platonist, but that's how I am like.

I have to see the big picture and pattern; just details don't make any sense. Once I feel the 'ummp' insight I can see the big picture and understand things I learned. That happened many times, especially while I was studying chemistry and physics.

I ask logical or intuitive explanations; instead of rote memorization of facts, I ask the professor or the teacher to teach the general principle behind it first and then go to specific.

I think it's the typical NT style of learning.





ssrprotege added to this post, 2 minutes and 53 seconds later...

All of this applies to me.

-In middle school, I considered my English professor an "airhead". She doesn't even know how to spell words. I have to correct her almost everyday. A middle schooler correcting an adult and an ENGLISH professor. Come on, who could respect someone like that?

-Currently, in my high school, we are learning about Living Environment. My professor just keeps talking and talking and at the end, I'm like "What just happened?" That's because I think it's pointless to learn about it. Yeah, who cares about the Krebs Cycle or whatever? I'm not going to be a biologist. So what's the point of learning this? But, there are times when I am into it with topics such as global warming because this should concern me as well as others. It has essence.

I don't think INTJs are slow learners. I think they are mistaken as slow learners because certain lessons doesn't have essence to it, which leads us to daydreaming. If a lesson has an essence, that's when they get into it.

If I think a lesson is pointless, I really have to push myself to like it. My driving force is to get scholarships and get into Harvard or Yale. So I get As and A+s but then, I forget after taking the exam. That's why I was never considered a slow learner.

Wow, this sounds true to me. You are as grade-driven as I am, except that if I hate something, I learn very slowly and I just don't do it. It's amazing that the fact that I hated biochem as hell led me to get less than 80% (but I don't care).

Anyhow, I admire your ambition. I hope you get into Harvard or Yale! Or consider Dartmouth as well, I will be there starting this September :)

[demvesalius]

Go to community college and save your money, seriously. You don't learn shit at four year universities for lower division because the professors don't give a crap about you. If you go to community college for your lower division, then you get nearly one-on-one teaching from people with masters and PHD's and who actually want to teach you.