Job Search

[MattG]

So I graduated from law school in May and haven't been able to find a job. I'm not sure if it's because I'm too picky or if it's because I'm terrible at networking, or if people can sense from my resume that my grades weren't very good.
This is the third time this has happened to me. Four years ago I got my Master's in computer science and couldn't get a job (that's why I went to law school). Four years before that I got out of college and couldn't get a job (that's why I went back to school and got my master's). Has this happened to anyone else?

[banzai]

I think what you mean is that you can't get a job, you can probably find them, but fail at one point in attaining, which means you need to identify why you can't complete the job process.

Sounds like you've already identified your resume as a likely stopping point. Try this:

Go through your resume and mark everything with a 1, 2, or 3. 1 if it's something that will contribute to getting you a job, 2 if it will do nothing, or 3 if it will hurt your chances of getting a job. Then, delete all of the 3s without exception (and I mean that), try to rebuff your 2s into 1s. A good resume will be mostly 1s and a few 2s for content, no 3s. Get input from the people who actually have the job you want about your resume.

[Warren_Wong]

I'd suggest a different approach. Try to build connections with people in the law firm you want to work at. Do something for them - for free. Tell them, "I really want to do something to impress you, at no charge".

Well, it would probably be easier to do it with a professor in your university who is a lawyer. Ask him if you can help him with his research. Then after a while, indicate that you have a desire to find a job. If you've busted ass for like a year or two, you should be filled with offers from his connections.

[Max T]

I'd suggest a different approach. Try to build connections with people in the law firm you want to work at. Do something for them - for free. Tell them, "I really want to do something to impress you, at no charge".

Well, it would probably be easier to do it with a professor in your university who is a lawyer. Ask him if you can help him with his research. Then after a while, indicate that you have a desire to find a job. If you've busted ass for like a year or two, you should be filled with offers from his connections.

Yes I agree with Warren- a candidate is more attractive when they're already working (regardless of pay etc.). Also, it keeps your mind sharp on law and helps you find exactly what area you want to work in.

My advice is more generic since I too suffer job droughts:
- Don't go into too much technical detail on the cv. I imagine INTJs are more prone to this than others. Often the initial recruiter- the gatekeeper- knows little about law, so help them to say yes to you. Dumb down the cv a little.
- "Law graduate with masters in computer science... what does he want to do?" could be an initial response by a recruiter. Show real commitment to law in your cv... and how about leveraging you masters by seeking computer-related law (e.g. software IP)- isn't this a growth area that older law partners struggle to keep abreast on?
- Visit recruiters and give them $10 in return for their frank assessment of your cv. That information is like gold dust and proved a real eye-opener for me.
- Think laterally. How about the law department in corporations or within the public sector?
- Tailor the cv to each job advertised. There's a tendency after the first few weeks to just churn out replies with a standard CV on a conveyor belt- not good.

Have faith- normally with employment post graduation, once you're in it gets easier to move around.

[Mason]

Have you been interviewed at least?

[Amaranth]

Hmmm. It could be that employers suspect a lack of direction, especially since computer science is worlds away from law. Plus, the fact that you've never had a job. I can't think of any advice better than what's been given above.

[Mason]

Hmmm. It could be that employers suspect a lack of direction, especially since computer science is worlds away from law. Plus, the fact that you've never had a job. I can't think of any advice better than what's been given above.

Well, he could always lie on his resume...

[Amaranth]

Well, he could always lie on his resume...

*shrugs* Whatever works. But keeping up a charade, especially when you pretend to have experience that you don't have, can be very demanding. I'd hope it wouldn't have to come to that!

[Henry]

So I graduated from law school in May and haven't been able to find a job. I'm not sure if it's because I'm too picky or if it's because I'm terrible at networking, or if people can sense from my resume that my grades weren't very good.
This is the third time this has happened to me. Four years ago I got my Master's in computer science and couldn't get a job (that's why I went to law school). Four years before that I got out of college and couldn't get a job (that's why I went back to school and got my master's). Has this happened to anyone else?

Are you getting interviews and that's where the process stops, or is it just not even getting there? Unemployment is pretty low right now, and should be non-existent for someone with an MS in CS.

And if you passed the bar, hang out your own shingle. Take the garbage, the small bodily injury issues, the mechanic's liens, the insurance subrogation.

[Theoden]

Hmmm. It could be that employers suspect a lack of direction, especially since computer science is worlds away from law. Plus, the fact that you've never had a job. I can't think of any advice better than what's been given above.

I hate the "lack of direction" comments HR people seem intent on highlighting. Just because I may have (or be working on) three degrees in three different areas doesn't mean I have a lack of direction. It means I have three directions, and if I have anything to do with it, I'll align them all into one hell of a coherent path.

HR people are the bane of modern society.

[Henry]

HR people are the bane of modern society.

I think "Shallow, self righteous douchebag" describes my HR rep. The only other one I've met iny my company is best described by a derogatory term for the female sex organ.

[Max T]

If HR are scum, then recruitment agencies are the pits. At least HR have the company's interests at heart- agencies just have their commission at heart.

Three aspects of recruiters I loathe:
1. they deal with a very important part of someone's life and, like estate agents, they know how to exploit it and take a cut from your first year's salary.

2. if your cv includes technical skills or successes that are slightly complex in nature, they ignore it. Irrespective of whether the client might adore you, if the agency doesn't understand the skills, there's the slight risk they'll wrongly put you forward.
Agencies admit that half of cvs they don't understand (due to the diverse nature).

3. if the recruiter cannot slot your background into their narrow-minded categories, you're out. Leave any unconventional skills off the cv so as not to upset their fragile minds.


Recruiters are like babies trying to fit square pegs into square holes- except now they've progressed onto fitting our cvs into square holes, but are still rewarded with a lollipop from their mother (the client).

[MattG]

Thanks for the replies. I've had two places interview me so far (I started looking in August, after the bar exam). Actually, I think a lot of it is my being picky, I've only probably applied to about a dozen places. But the other part I think is this irrational fear that firms won't like me because of my grades. My last interview they really seemed to like me, and brought me back for a second interview. When they asked me about my grades, I sort of froze up and I think they could see the fear in my eyes.
For my next interview, when they ask about my grades or class rank, I'm just going to tell them that my main goal in school was to study as much as I needed to learn the subject, and that I treat work differently in that I've always worked much harder for my employer.

[Henry]

Thanks for the replies. I've had two places interview me so far (I started looking in August, after the bar exam). Actually, I think a lot of it is my being picky, I've only probably applied to about a dozen places. But the other part I think is this irrational fear that firms won't like me because of my grades. My last interview they really seemed to like me, and brought me back for a second interview. When they asked me about my grades, I sort of froze up and I think they could see the fear in my eyes.
For my next interview, when they ask about my grades or class rank, I'm just going to tell them that my main goal in school was to study as much as I needed to learn the subject, and that I treat work differently in that I've always worked much harder for my employer.

I work with a fair number of attorneys in my line of work. A lot of firms are concerned that young employees, particularly those that don't have a lot of experience, won't have the balls for some of the really tough negotiations that take place. At least with the attorneys I have to deal with, dealing with their various verbal negotiation strategies took some getting used to, even for a callous prick like myself. Unless its some patsy public defense or blah contract review job, they were probably more concerned about the sheepish reaction than the GPA.

[GOD]

Thanks for the replies. I've had two places interview me so far (I started looking in August, after the bar exam). Actually, I think a lot of it is my being picky, I've only probably applied to about a dozen places. But the other part I think is this irrational fear that firms won't like me because of my grades. My last interview they really seemed to like me, and brought me back for a second interview. When they asked me about my grades, I sort of froze up and I think they could see the fear in my eyes.
For my next interview, when they ask about my grades or class rank, I'm just going to tell them that my main goal in school was to study as much as I needed to learn the subject, and that I treat work differently in that I've always worked much harder for my employer.

You have to start where ever you can; everything is a connected stepping stone.

I remember when I was doing some work for a huge consumer electronics company that graduates actually applied for jobs in the warehouse... and I thought WTF!! Then I realised that all employees have FIRST rights to interview on any vacant posts.

The fact is that you have to feel your way around the working world... I have. Funnily enough, I know that NO job will ever give me what I want, so I have to create myself the ultimate company. Just maybe you should just take something and then just focus on doing your own ideas.