Do you do drugs?

[Hypomanic]

We already have a pot poll... I just thought I'd add.

[LSB]

You forgot 'caffeine', that's my poison (and the only one, I intend to keep it that way).

[rwyatt365]

Alcohol; wine, and in prettly low amounts

[Myrak]

None at all (except coffee recently). It's quite a contrast to the majority of my peers who insist on getting smashed off their faces each and every weekend... I see no joy in that.

[rocksteady]

You forgot 'caffeine', that's my poison (and the only one, I intend to keep it that way).

you could probably file that under amphetamines.

and wow, it seems my nightclub days have put me in a class of my own in regards to drug experimentation, I've even sampled a few not-listed here.

Personally, under the right circumstances, I encourage experimentation with narcotics. Unfortunately, most people don't experiment under the right circumstances, and a few bad apples can spoil things for everyone.

Some of my experience with ketamine have had profound philosophic influences on my life. methamphtamines however, have taken me places I don't care to visit ever again, but I feel more complete a person for having had those experiences. Nowadays I keep it to a minimum, but never will you hear me say I regret it :)

[cielo market]

nah, I'm good.

[Paul V]

For once, I'm glad to be part of the majority here. Although if you would've added caffeine... it would've been a whole different story.

[OneBadMother]

Unless you mean caffeine or whatever it is that's in chocolate, no dice.

[rocksteady]

I wonder if my uniqueness on this issue is due to my past socialization activities. Did anyone on this board go through a phase where they went to lots bars and nightclubs, or even parties? I've only recently embraced my inner INTJ.

[Allie]

Sorry rocksteady. I am with the others here too. Tea for me. 4 to 5 cups a day.

[RoqueBear]

I voted... but, I think theres some flaws in your logic about substance use and addiction..

[rocksteady]

I voted... but, I think theres some flaws in your logic about substance use and addiction..
i'm interested, what do you mean?

[Drayakir]

Huh. Alcohol and cocaine for me, and I see I'm the only other one that does the latter.

And by doing, I mean, I do it occasionally (last time was a month ago). But still, the rush you get from it- it's so much stronger than coffee. Although i enjoy that too, but I'm not a caffeine addict (yet). I absolutely hate the taste, and can't drink it without sugar or sugar substitute.

[brewmaster]

I wonder if my uniqueness on this issue is due to my past socialization activities. Did anyone on this board go through a phase where they went to lots bars and nightclubs, or even parties? I've only recently embraced my inner INTJ.

When I was in college I was dragged to a million bars/parties, and I hated every minute of it. Despite that I spent Thur. through Sat. in a bar. I also joined a fraternity when I was a freshman so that any socialization would be taken care of for me, which is probably quite unusual for an INTJ.

With bars, I never would talk to people I didn't know. We would get there at around 9PM and then I would have to leave by midnight at the latest or else the bar(s) would get too crowded for me. I would only stay past that time if there were a large amount of my 'brothers' there controlling a significant portion of the bar so that I could isolate myself in a corner.

With parties, specifically the ones held in the fraternity, I would do fly-bys. This entailed walking around the house going room to room, or to the main areas, pick up a drink or two along the way, and then find my way back to my room where the music and envirionment were much more pleasant (I cannot stand rap music, and I loathe dancing). A funny thing I did there was I smoked a pipe through most of college, and I would blend my tobacco 3:1 with pot, so that I could walk around the house getting stoned, and only a few people with extra sharp senses would pick up on what was going on, of course I denied it.

I have done most of the drugs listed in the poll, and a few that aren't at least a couple of times. I really never liked any of them all that much, as they would give me side affects that were unpleasant, but I was willing to give anything a shot at least twice. I hate shrooms as I always overdosed, but LSD was great if I could be alone out in the middle of nowhere. I love booze and pot still to this day, but now I wouldn't dream of touching anything else.

[rocksteady]

When I was in college I was dragged to a million bars/parties, and I hated every minute of it. Despite that I spent Thur. through Sat. in a bar. I also joined a fraternity when I was a freshman so that any socialization would be taken care of for me, which is probably quite unusual for an INTJ.

With bars, I never would talk to people I didn't know. We would get there at around 9PM and then I would have to leave by midnight at the latest or else the bar(s) would get too crowded for me. I would only stay past that time if there were a large amount of my 'brothers' there controlling a significant portion of the bar so that I could isolate myself in a corner.

With parties, specifically the ones held in the fraternity, I would do fly-bys. This entailed walking around the house going room to room, or to the main areas, pick up a drink or two along the way, and then find my way back to my room where the music and envirionment were much more pleasant (I cannot stand rap music, and I loathe dancing). A funny thing I did there was I smoked a pipe through most of college, and I would blend my tobacco 3:1 with pot, so that I could walk around the house getting stoned, and only a few people with extra sharp senses would pick up on what was going on, of course I denied it.

I have done most of the drugs listed in the poll, and a few that aren't at least a couple of times. I really never liked any of them all that much, as they would give me side affects that were unpleasant, but I was willing to give anything a shot at least twice. I hate shrooms as I always overdosed, but LSD was great if I could be alone out in the middle of nowhere. I love booze and pot still to this day, but now I wouldn't dream of touching anything else.

good to hear I'm not alone, your bar/party habits are very similar to mine. I prefer psychoactive drugs for recreation, I always viewed stimulants as more of a tool to stay "high". Like you, I only enjoyed a select few, but would not hesitate to give anything a couple tries.

[Br3nti5]

Mainly Pot and Alcohol - i have experimented with a few others, but I make it a point to keep my narcotics use to a minimum, but I have to admit I love a joint or a beer after a long day of work/working out.

[Hdier]

I'm never touching drugs in my life (including alcohol)

However, I'm on my way to becoming a caffeine addict, and I really don't care.

Random Factoid!: Did you know that caffeine is the most addictive substance to man, known to man? That's right: It's not alcohol (most peoples first guess).

[thegnat]

I'm never touching drugs in my life (including alcohol)

However, I'm on my way to becoming a caffeine addict, and I really don't care.

Random Factoid!: Did you know that caffeine is the most addictive substance to man, known to man? That's right: It's not alcohol (most peoples first guess).

Alcohol isn't addictive - it just gets abused. Addiction is a chemical *dependence*. And it's caused by certain characteristics of the chemical. ethanol is naturally produced I believe. I don't believe people drink it due to a *craving*. Like smokers. Or why people get headaches when they don't get their cup of coffee. Sorry for the rant.

As for doing drugs - I won't ever do drugs including alcohol. Except for my medications. I don't trust drug interactions and I don't want to mess myself up more than I already am haha.

[rocksteady]

I'm never touching drugs in my life (including alcohol)

However, I'm on my way to becoming a caffeine addict, and I really don't care.

Random Factoid!: Did you know that caffeine is the most addictive substance to man, known to man? That's right: It's not alcohol (most peoples first guess).


where is heroin on that list?

[Duncan Cade]

I do alcohol and pot, but that's usually when there are friends around (pot) or at parties (alcohol). I take quite alot but I'm not an addict.

[Lucid]

Like Rocksteady I've done almost all of the drugs listed here and a few that weren't.

These days I rarely do anything harder than pot and alcohol, mostly because I simply don't have the time or money to spend on harder drugs, but also because my experimentation with those substances was really a phase in my life and I've since grown out of it.

I also agree with Rocksteady in that experimentation isn't necessarily a negative experience. My experiences with meth have also taken me to places that were really quite scary, but I also had a lot of positive experiences on other substances. I don't regret a single experience though. I feel that I learned a lot while I was into that lifestyle and it seems like I've had a lot of experiences that other people haven't.

I think my experiences with narcotics stem from my philosophy that you're only guaranteed one life and so it's best to do as much and experience as much of the world as possible, because the world is a huge awesome place with all kinds of things to do and see. This isn't just limited to narcotics, though, and any experimentation had to be carefully balanced with responsibility so I didn't ruin my life with them, as many people do.

I wonder if my uniqueness on this issue is due to my past socialization activities. Did anyone on this board go through a phase where they went to lots bars and nightclubs, or even parties? I've only recently embraced my inner INTJ.

I also spent many years going to parties, clubs, bars and shows. I still enjoy bars and certain kinds of parties.

[Winden]

Regular alcohol abuser, occasional pot user. Addicted to caffeine.

Someone mentioned the "right circumstances": that's exactly why I've never tried anything heavier than pot. I am simply too reliant on my mind to lose control of it in any circumstance that is anything less than 100% safe (alcohol mainly just impairs my coordination and loosens a few self-imposed restrictions, whereas pot separates my mind from my mouth, but I never really lose track of my thoughts).

I suppose if I could have a room with stuffed walls all for myself for two whole days, and if I were sure that a trusted friend would keep an eye on me, I'd gladly try some of the harder stuff like cocaine or LSD. I've had some... truly interesting and unexpected experiences just by mixing alcohol and pot, so I can only guess at what exotic places my mind would take me to if I took some more powerful drugs.

I don't think I'll ever try them though.

[Lucid]

I suppose if I could have a room with stuffed walls all for myself for two whole days, and if I were sure that a trusted friend would keep an eye on me, I'd gladly try some of the harder stuff like cocaine or LSD. I've had some... truly interesting and unexpected experiences just by mixing alcohol and pot, so I can only guess at what exotic places my mind would take me to if I took some more powerful drugs.

I don't think I'll ever try them though.

I suppose that everyone will be affected differently by mind-altering substances. In my personal experience, though, I've only once fully lost control of my mind, and it was because I actually overdosed. (another obvious danger of any kind of experimentation with narcotics, and arguably another good reason to stay away from them.) However, most depressants or stimulants don't have as strong an effect on one's thinking as many people suppose. Psychedelic drugs (such as LSD) do affect your thinking. But most people are fully aware of what's going on around them and are also fully aware that they are on drugs and any perceived abnormalities are a result of the chemicals you have ingested.

There are always exceptions though, and so I completely understand your desire to err on the side of safety. :)

[Henry]

To paraphrase a great philosopher:

I don't have a drinking problem.
I get drunk, I fall down, I get up.
No problem.

[edalz]

I like alcohol in moderate amounts, and I Love tea.

I've never enjoyed bars because I absolutely cannot stand cigarette smoke.
I don't smoke pot, but the smoke doesn't bother me as much as cigarette smoke does. :yuck: *ack ack ack*

[Hdier]

Alcohol isn't addictive - it just gets abused. Addiction is a chemical *dependence*. And it's caused by certain characteristics of the chemical. ethanol is naturally produced I believe. I don't believe people drink it due to a *craving*. Like smokers. Or why people get headaches when they don't get their cup of coffee. Sorry for the rant.

Actually, it is very psychologically addictive, even if it's not physiologically addictive, which is what you described, which I'm not willing to admit. Plus, I just said it was most peoples guess, not that it was true. In fact, I specifically said that it wasn't true.

[umop_3pisdn]

Hell yes, I love drugs (namely my drugs of choice, of course) which would be LSD, mushrooms, ketamine, and a few phenethylamines (2C-B, Mescaline.) I also enjoy the odd dabbling with MDMA/MDA, and weed will always have a special place in my heart.

I love psychedelics and dissociatives the most. They've brought to light so many things I've tried to conceal from myself, and really opened my eyes up to spirituality in a way that I never was before. They've caused me to be so entirely truthful with myself, and my feelings... and they've kicked my ass in such a way to cause me to recognize many of the things I disliked about myself, and tried not to recognize within myself.

This may sound ridiculous to some people, but I consider one who has no/little experience with drugs, similarly as I view a long-term virgin. I don't look down on them for their choices, but I do think they're missing out on some of the most intense and poetic experiences our time on this Earth has to offer. Ninety-nine percent of my most intense and cathartic moments have been drug induced. Some people may view that as a sad thing, but I think it's awesome, simply because I've had that many more experiences that are simply beyond words.. Some of the experiences I could never imagine experiencing while sober. If that means I have to experiment with my neurochemistry by introducing outside chemicals, I'm cool with that. It's a calculated risk, I personally find the risks were worth it in my case.

Psychedelics and such aren't for everyone, but ultimately I advocate them, because they opened my eyes in a more true way than anything else ever has. I don't mean to say it should be necessary to do drugs of this kind to come to such realizations... but the drugs can present some feelings or ideas in such a powerful and poetic way, that they literally cannot be ignored or swept under the rug. The change in thinking is primarily why I do psychedelics. I find it to be very beautiful and pure, as it so effortlessly tears down my ego and all the walls I build around (and within) myself. Visuals or "hallucinations", are peripheral to the experience.

So, yeah, I'm pretty passionate about drugs. Ultimately I just think they're powerful tools. I don't subscribe to the belief that drug-induced experiences are in any way "un-genuine." Drugs influence your brain, but it is your brain that is being stimulated by it, and it is perceived as "genuine" as any other experience. Hell, psychedelics I find to feel more "genuine" than sobriety! The sheer intensity of the things I may feel, and of what's brought to the surface, eclipses all of my "sober" memories. I even begin to wonder how I could have ever thought the way I did before! I can be filled with such a deep philosophical love for all of humanity, nay, the entire universe, that I can't even understand my former, more selfish ways of thinking. That's something I could never even imagine in my sober state, simply because there were always walls separating me from really loving anything. I may not be able to "keep" that feeling after the drugs wear off, but I remember what it feels like. I have some idea of what so called "religious experiences" feel like, so at least I have some image to aspire to... if I ever plan to take the traditional path to 'enlightenment' or whatever.. All of my experiences have been extremely personal (which is why I think psychedelic psychotherapy holds a lot of promise, and I think psychedelics should be legalized for use by trained professionals who can help guide the experience.)

Although as a child, I was always interested in out of body experiences, and lucid dreaming, and such things. Drugs are different, but I think I've always been somewhat of a "psychonaut", by nature. I think my interest in drugs is an extension of this.

[Hdier]

I have also been interested with things such as lucid dreaming my whole life but I don't like drugs...I can barely stand having to take aspirin (ie. I'm disgusted, not nervous).

[umop_3pisdn]

I have also been interested with things such as lucid dreaming my whole life but I don't like drugs...I can barely stand having to take aspirin (ie. I'm disgusted, not nervous).

That's cool. I'd be lying if I said I could understand it, though. Many kinds of drugs are completely innocuous, and I find nothing strange about taking them, (lets consider them supplements, of sorts) For instance, I also have an interest in things like nootropics (so called "smart drugs", usually macro-molecules that aid in cognition, by some mechanism) Examples that I know of are piracetam and centrophenoxine. Such things are sold in health food stores in NA, but are used to treat stroke victims and such in Europe because it lessens the aging of the brain in some way, and I suppose aids in the brain's plasticity. I haven't had a stroke or anything, and these drugs have only been around for 20 years or so... so in reality, who knows, maybe 20 years from now they will have fucked with my brain in some way? I'm naturally willing to take the risk, though. The idea appeals to me, and the fact that I' taking chemicals produced from an external source does not bother me.

The fact is, drugs work by different mechanisms. I don't think any recreational drug is ever entirely "good" for a perfectly balanced individual, but some drawbacks pale in comparison to others. Not all drugs can be lumped together, as their mechanisms/function, and their effects, can vary so much from each other. The harder drugs (alcohol, coke, meth, heroin, and to some extent MDMA) will generally leave you feeling more fried, due to the nature of the way they work. These drugs aren't nice on the brain, and while fun, on the comedown of something like coke, you may feel so shitty that you feel it eclipses the high. Plus there's the matter of neurotoxicity, and it's use can be viewed as pure hedonism. Not that there is anything wrong with hedonism, but if you're looking for anything else, you're looking in the wrong place, when dealing with such drugs.

Other drugs, however, aren't "hedonistic" in nature at all (psychedelics, for instance, as they tend to magnify emotions, and as are good as they can be bad and unpleasant), and show less signs of physical damage (or none, in the case of psychedelics, which are entirely nontoxic.) It's true psychedelics catalyze pre-existing mental conditions that have not been brought to the fore yet. People with a family history of schizophrenia are recommended to stay away.

My point is, some drugs seem completely innocuous to me. Some things like fish oil caps, which aid in getting the essential oils to make my brain work better, are simple nutrients my brain can use, and are more healthy than unhealthy. Or maybe I'll take some melatonin I buy from a health food store to help me have more vivid dreams. Neither of these can be compared to recreational drugs, exactly, as they are chemicals that are produced or required by the brain. But some drugs, simply put, aren't nearly as damaging as society would have you believe. They have the potential to change your mind, but I've generally found these changes to be positive, and so I believe whatever risk I took in playing around with my neuro-chemistry has payed off.

Though I would be lying if drug use hasn't become somewhat normalized for me. In my group of friends, I was the one to dive into them with the most ardour... I also fucked up and made a lot of stupid calls a long the way, and got myself into some very uncomfortable situations. Psychedelics are especially bad for this, as they tend to bring latent anxieties and stress to the fore, and magnifies whatever feelings you are experiencing. Experienced trippers tend to get a feeling for "set and setting." This is a term used for your own mental mindset (stresses, deadlines, depression, social anxiety) or setting (place that causes anxiety, or with people who aren't conducive to a trip) so negative aspects can be minimized by planning your trip in advance.

Anyways, I feel there's a lot I could say on the topic, but I think I'm going into too many tangents, and I've gone on about this for a long time now. In summation, I find drug use in my case to be logical, and (sometimes) enjoyable. Even when the drugs are making me feel uncomfortable things, I always have been able to weather the storm, and come back stronger for it. And I get a lot of excitement from it, in a relatively controllable way. Those are my rationalizations, anyways.

[mielikki]

Nothing but caffeine.

I have been sober for 13 years. I'm a garden-variety alcoholic. I never got into other drugs.
Oddly enough, my ADHD wasn't diagnosed until I sobered up. I had been self-medicating for years.

[Hdier]

You live in Nebraska too?!?!?!

Anyways, I don't entirely understand my disgust with drugs either. I am plauged with constant headaches (I would say migrain's, but I don't know enough), and I refuse to take asprin most of the time for no rational reason.

[Rohsiph]

I've developed a concept of having a "mental integrity"--anything that would unnaturally (and just because a chemical might be made with organic ingredients would not then make it natural) alter my mental functioning would jeopardize my mental integrity, and is therefore unacceptable.

I figure the "walls" inside myself are there for a reason, and I've proven myself capable of taking down those walls through exerting my own will when I've needed to. Drugs are unnecessary, and would fundamentally impede my natural functioning--would be traps and pitfalls on my unending quest to perfect myself as much as humanly possible.

And I have to say, this view does mean I will always judge users differently from non-users--though not in such a significant way as to demonize either side. Rather, hypothetical: I know two guys, one who is an avid user and one who has remained sober his entire life. They both hate each other, but they both love a band that's playing at the local venue--although neither will know about the show unless I tell them. If I want to have a good time, then I can only take one of these guys. I will always choose to take the sober guy, as long as both guys are fundamentally equivalent in their capabilities. Now, if the avid user is significantly more creative and interesting than the sober guy, I'll probably take him.

Not to say I am completely without hypocrisies--a dose of morphine was administered into my system in an ER once, and I've had a few sips of wine in my lifetime. More damning, I could see myself experimenting with drugs if I fell in love with a responsible user--but I doubt I would give up my mental integrity in any other circumstance.

[Hdier]

Has anyone ever tried taking a drug (legal or non) and tried resisting it's effect? For example, my doc prescribed me some painkiller medicine, and I try to avoid taking it as much as possible. However, sometimes I will decide to take it, and try to feel the pain anyways, thereby resisting the effect. Does anyone think this is odd?

On second thought, probably everyone does. Let me change the question: Does anyone think that this is wrong?

[Hypomanic]

Has anyone ever tried taking a drug (legal or non) and tried resisting it's effect? For example, my doc prescribed me some painkiller medicine, and I try to avoid taking it as much as possible. However, sometimes I will decide to take it, and try to feel the pain anyways, thereby resisting the effect. Does anyone think this is odd?

On second thought, probably everyone does. Let me change the question: Does anyone think that this is wrong?

No not at all.. heck you're better than someone who doesn't need painkillers but takes them.

[umop_3pisdn]

I've developed a concept of having a "mental integrity"--anything that would unnaturally (and just because a chemical might be made with organic ingredients would not then make it natural) alter my mental functioning would jeopardize my mental integrity, and is therefore unacceptable.


I don't know, I've found myself to have gained more mental integrity through drug use, personally, as it has shattered my ego/ humbled me, and has a tendency to remove all the baggage and social-norms and shit that got tacked on to me in my path through life. In terms of the walls it has torn down, they have all been walls I have been more than glad to be without (say, the wall of my social insecurity, that kept me from truly connecting emotionally to my friends, or really examining their perspectives.) I consider the core of my identity to be more intact than it was before I began experimenting with these things, all the walls that have been torn down have been baggage and shit that confused and disrupted the core of my person more than anything... but that's just my personal experience.

Like I said, I consider it a calculated risk. The poignancy of the shift in perspective eclipses any doubt that my experiences are somehow 'unnatural', or any less a part of me than my sober self is. They're like moods/feelings (only they can be more intense,) so once you're experiencing them, the thought of having a different perspective/feeling seems somewhat absurd and is hard to even imagine.

I also think my experiences have given me a better idea of what "reality" is, as "reality" can be changed so drastically by simply changing some of the chemicals in my brain. I appreciate this fact, because I feel I have a better idea of all the possible ways my brain could perceive the world, and how reality truly isn't "objective", as your peceptions just create a hologram we all call "reality" and simply take for granted. I never really saw how true this was before I got into drugs.

I know I'm probably sounding preachy, but I don't find responsible use of some drugs to be much of a compromise of mental integrity. It is a risk, no doubt, but I have never in my life actually felt "at risk" of anything I've done, no matter how intense it has gotten. I mean, sure, I've felt like I've gone crazy when I overshot my desired dose... but I've always come back better for it, and so my mental integrity, I feel, has increased if anything, due to the stresses and such that psychedelics can magnify/draw to the fore. In the end, the 'damage' caused to my identity, from this stress, only chipped away the weak and ungenuine parts of myself. Sure, I would have figured the things I figured out independent of them, on my own, but I feel it would have been a much slower and more arduous process with my ego standing in the way. Psychedelics simply feel so poetic and spiritual in such a way that I find it difficult to achieve such an awesome state via sobriety. I find the psychedelic experience to be such an awesome teacher. Everything is magnified, and your mind grows much more conscious of all the things it used to take for granted

It probably seems like I'm trying to convince everyone to try drugs. Perhaps, in some ways, I kind of am. The fact is, it simply annoys me the way our society views psychedelic drugs. They're completely non-toxic and non-addictive, yet they're lumped together with drugs like cocaine and heroin. They also show the most potential out of any drug to unlock some of the mysteries of how our brains work, along with offering an intense shift in perspective to those struggling with various problems. LSD treatment has shown to be 50% effective in the curing of alcoholism. The next most successful program, the 12 step program, is only effective about 10% of the time. Psychedelics can show people the things they dislike about themselves or their lives, even if they're struggling hard to ignore it/keep it under control. I feel it awakens people to their "true" feelings, and I view psychedelics as a powerful mental catalyst towards understanding the self/ transcendental spirituality, and such.

Many of these things I may have "known" before doing psychedelics, but I didn't really understand how true these ideas were to me, before I had some of these intense experiences. They were so intense, they were simply beyond being ignored, they expressed themselves to me so powerfully and in such a 'real' and 'truthful' way, that I would describe them as the most intensely spiritual experiences of my life.

So, yeah, I feel it has actually increased my mental-integrity if anything. It's made me more in tune with my 'true' emotions, and I'm more comfortable with the core of my being. It has also whithered many of my egotistical and solipsistic characteristics, and has also shown me how large and engrossing the universe is, and how I am simply a small part of one giant universal machine/system that is beyond comprehension. I've never felt that in such a real and true way as I have when on psychedelics. And I in no way consider these experiences "delusions." To me, they always make perfect sense, even if incredibly confusing.

[Tsuru]

Hmm. I did smoke pot for 1 1/2 years or so. I also did DXM a few times (aka main ingredient in cough syrup, a strong dissociative in big doses), and a low dose of Salvia Divinorum once. And I drank once in awhile too. I would have tried a lot of other things back then if my complete lack of social skills/connections hadn't prevented me from locating said things. I liked doing it to relax and to experience different states the brain could have and for introspection and such. Not a social thing at all - being around people in any altered states always caused acute stress for me. I haven't touched anything for 6 years though, since I'm too afraid of doing anything that might cause a relapse into depression (which I've gotten over recently).

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying or using anything, provided you don't do something stupid, don't do anything dangerous, don't form a destructive habbit, and don't damage your brain in the process. I basically see drugs as the mental equivalent of mountain climbing or skydiving. Not for everyone, and potentially dangerous if ill-prepared, but it's their business if they want to do it and it's not an inherently unseemly activity.

[Rohsiph]

I don't know, I've found myself to have gained more mental integrity through drug use, personally, as it has shattered my ego/ humbled me, and has a tendency to remove all the baggage and social-norms and shit that got tacked on to me in my path through life. In terms of the walls it has torn down, they have all been walls I have been more than glad to be without (say, the wall of my social insecurity, that kept me from truly connecting emotionally to my friends, or really examining their perspectives.) I consider the core of my identity to be more intact than it was before I began experimenting with these things, all the walls that have been torn down have been baggage and shit that confused and disrupted the core of my person more than anything... but that's just my personal experience.

The distinction here is: imagine your sober self achieving everything you have through drug use. With this possible-you in mind, would you consider this hypothetical to be stronger, weaker, or just the same as your actual self?

My perspective is that drugs invalidate one's mastering his/her integrity--it's largely Kantian: the one who struggles most to get to the top is a lot more impressive than one who gets just as far, but without as much effort.

Like I said, I consider it a calculated risk. The poignancy of the shift in perspective eclipses any doubt that my experiences are somehow 'unnatural', or any less a part of me than my sober self is. They're like moods/feelings (only they can be more intense,) so once you're experiencing them, the thought of having a different perspective/feeling seems somewhat absurd and is hard to even imagine.

This is what I would expect--but it's further affirmation, for me, that drug-use means a compromise of mental integrity. You become what the drug makes you, and then revert back to a normal, yet now different, entity after coming off the drugs. I'll say more about this later in my post.

I also think my experiences have given me a better idea of what "reality" is, as "reality" can be changed so drastically by simply changing some of the chemicals in my brain. I appreciate this fact, because I feel I have a better idea of all the possible ways my brain could perceive the world, and how reality truly isn't "objective", as your peceptions just create a hologram we all call "reality" and simply take for granted. I never really saw how true this was before I got into drugs.

Metaphysical inquiry is very intriguing . . . subjective perception of reality is pretty low as far as the complexity of academic metaphysical subjects go.

Separating my immediately existing self (assuming there is existence) from my philosophically inquisitive self: the idea of reality being "changed so drastically by simply changing some of the chemicals in [one's] brain" can be quite horrifying. This is not my primary motivation for distancing myself from drugs as the concept also applies to mental illness--alzheimer's is many degrees more terrifying than drug use.

I know I'm probably sounding preachy, but I don't find responsible use of some drugs to be much of a compromise of mental integrity. It is a risk, no doubt, but I have never in my life actually felt "at risk" of anything I've done, no matter how intense it has gotten. I mean, sure, I've felt like I've gone crazy when I overshot my desired dose... but I've always come back better for it, and so my mental integrity, I feel, has increased if anything, due to the stresses and such that psychedelics can magnify/draw to the fore. In the end, the 'damage' caused to my identity, from this stress, only chipped away the weak and ungenuine parts of myself. Sure, I would have figured the things I figured out independent of them, on my own, but I feel it would have been a much slower and more arduous process with my ego standing in the way. Psychedelics simply feel so poetic and spiritual in such a way that I find it difficult to achieve such an awesome state via sobriety. I find the psychedelic experience to be such an awesome teacher. Everything is magnified, and your mind grows much more conscious of all the things it used to take for granted

So, because of the drugs, when you're crazy, you don't feel "at risk" in a moment when you are actually at risk? And the lessons you learn, since you have been fortunate enough to survive such miscalculations, are important enough to continue making the risk, over and over again?

It's a life choice--and I am getting equally preachy here, but we do this because we can both benefit from coming to understand each others' perspective. Can you give some specific examples about what it is a sober mind takes for granted?

[Rohsiph]

It probably seems like I'm trying to convince everyone to try drugs. Perhaps, in some ways, I kind of am. The fact is, it simply annoys me the way our society views psychedelic drugs. They're completely non-toxic and non-addictive, yet they're lumped together with drugs like cocaine and heroin. They also show the most potential out of any drug to unlock some of the mysteries of how our brains work, along with offering an intense shift in perspective to those struggling with various problems. LSD treatment has shown to be 50% effective in the curing of alcoholism. The next most successful program, the 12 step program, is only effective about 10% of the time. Psychedelics can show people the things they dislike about themselves or their lives, even if they're struggling hard to ignore it/keep it under control. I feel it awakens people to their "true" feelings, and I view psychedelics as a powerful mental catalyst towards understanding the self/ transcendental spirituality, and such.

I might surprise you here, but I actually agree with you on this point--well, mostly. Not so much the end of this passage, but certainly the negative stereotypes about the "healthier" drugs. I theoretically support research into better understanding the short- and long-term effects of psychedelics--but for me to actually use anything myself, I would need a large push from someone I strongly care about and trust completely.

Many of these things I may have "known" before doing psychedelics, but I didn't really understand how true these ideas were to me, before I had some of these intense experiences. They were so intense, they were simply beyond being ignored, they expressed themselves to me so powerfully and in such a 'real' and 'truthful' way, that I would describe them as the most intensely spiritual experiences of my life.

Can you find a method to offer more convincing testimony of your experiences to a rational? Perhaps you can offer a detailed narrative of a particularly important experience with drugs? At the moment, the quote directly above this sounds, well . . . nutty, and cliche.

If your experiences were so "real" and "truthful," then you should be able to argue particulars for how your experiences were so "real" and "truthful," without amorphous vagueries like referencing "spiritual experience"--it's difficult to get more subjective than that.

So, yeah, I feel it has actually increased my mental-integrity if anything. It's made me more in tune with my 'true' emotions, and I'm more comfortable with the core of my being. It has also whithered many of my egotistical and solipsistic characteristics, and has also shown me how large and engrossing the universe is, and how I am simply a small part of one giant universal machine/system that is beyond comprehension. I've never felt that in such a real and true way as I have when on psychedelics. And I in no way consider these experiences "delusions." To me, they always make perfect sense, even if incredibly confusing.

If it really has made you more in tune with your emotions, then why do you put quotations around "true?" That you do so suggests you're not quite confident in these emotions actually being particularly true.

I mean . . . well, frankly, you come off as a nut-job, the way you describe your "enlightenments." I don't say this to particularly offend (I hope you can accept it as an impersonal judgment of your argumentative methods), but you're really failing to convince me of anything except that my perspective is a much stronger one than yours.

I don't want to belabour our argument, though . . . I went through a very similar discussion on INTPcentral about 15 months ago, where the full discussion spanned more than a dozen document pages. So, I want to offer this:

I've come to respect the life-choices of drug users who use their drugs in an effectively responsible manner. From my perspective, however, using drugs amounts to taking shortcuts, or escaping from problems that one would do much better to meet head-on. The concept of mental integrity is such that it is a betrayal of this integrity for the functionality of your mind to shift in any significant way due to unnatural circumstances. At times, such circumstances occur beyond one's control--a good example would be severe illness--but one can certainly control one's using or not using drugs, which, even one beer, leads to a shift in mental processes such that mental integrity is breached.

Small breaches of mental integrity aren't necessarily catastrophic . . . but preserving one's mental integrity means maximizing one's potential for strengthening oneself. For many people, rising to life's challenges equipped only with the immediate functions of one's natural mental processes is not enough to move forward--detours and short-circuits are necessary. But, these people, in a Nietzschean sense, have a lesser will than those who can move forward without breaching individual mental integrity.

What I'm getting at is what I tried to hint at earlier: one takes a drug, has an experience, and comes off that drug . . . having now experienced that drug. Our actions and choices define our future selves. Having made the choice to use a drug, and remembering, at least in parts, experiencing that drug, one is effectively changed forever--albeit, probably in a pretty small way if it really is just a one-time thing. Combine this consequence with my concept of mental integrity rooted in Kantian ethics (the sufferer who succeeds is "better" than the non-sufferer who succeeds) and Nietzschean metaphysics/epistemology (one's experience of the world is primarily through his/her "will to power"), and I hope my view can be understood.

(Apologies for splitting my reply, but it was over the single-post character limit, and I thought it would be unfair to have removed portions of umop_3pisdn's quotes)

[ShaiGar]

I've smoked Pot, and I occasionally drink alcohol Guinness, Merlot, Whiskey.

I'd try Steroids if they did not have such damaging physical effects.

[Hypomanic]

I've smoked Pot, and I occasionally drink alcohol Guinness, Merlot, Whiskey.

I'd try Steroids if they did not have such damaging physical effects.

What's it with guys and steroids? :thinking:

Other things are far superior..

[Lucid]

What's it with guys and steroids? :thinking:

Other things are far superior..

I've never known anyone who's done steroids.

[Hdier]

I've been thinking about it, Umop, and what I like about caffeine is similar (though it is a lesser effect, as well as a different one). If I have enough caffeine (right now about one can of soda), then I will become intensely focused, able to react quickly, my mental capabilities are increased, etc. The feeling I get from caffeine is pretty much the opposite from what I'd expect, as I would expect it to make me all giddery, emotional, etc. Instead, it increases the good points of my 'J' and 'T', allowing me to make my decisions quickly, logically, and well. It seems similar to what you were saying, though I am worse at expressing the feeling when compared to you.

[elsdfr]

I'd be careful with disassociatives as they are neurotoxic. It also stands to reason as they disconnect your brain and body. Anything that can do that would no doubt be harmful in the long term. But yes I agree, some experimentation can be helpful in understanding yourself, its just a case of the person knowing when and how to stop. This unfortunately is the problem with most people :(

If the legality of it all is a problem for you there is always Hawaiian baby woodrose (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). Its a natural drug thats not illegal to possess in most place and gives some profound effects, good and bad its not really enjoyable in the usual sense and no doubt why its not illegal, anyone willing to take it regularly needs their head checked. I honestly didn't know which way was down for some period of time, this was indeed a major head fsck. :laugh:

[banzai]

I drink socially. Plenty of caffiene, too.

I'll probably end up trying marijuana one day too, but haven't thus far.

[OneBadMother]

I've been thinking about it, Umop, and what I like about caffeine is similar (though it is a lesser effect, as well as a different one). If I have enough caffeine (right now about one can of soda), then I will become intensely focused, able to react quickly, my mental capabilities are increased, etc. The feeling I get from caffeine is pretty much the opposite from what I'd expect, as I would expect it to make me all giddery, emotional, etc. Instead, it increases the good points of my 'J' and 'T', allowing me to make my decisions quickly, logically, and well. It seems similar to what you were saying, though I am worse at expressing the feeling when compared to you.

Dark chocolate seems to make me ten times wittier in sufficient quantities. That, or it makes me feel like I'm being wittier. <_< I can't quite figure out which.

At any rate, I have a definite preference for stimulants, but I'm not going to touch cocaine anytime soon, if ever.

[bucolic_]

What's it with guys and steroids? :thinking:

Other things are far superior..

What is it with women and making unfounded statements?

[Hypomanic]

What is it with women and making unfounded statements?

Since when do statements end with a '?' :thinking:

[prometheus]

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.





prometheus added to this post, 61 minutes and 56 seconds later...

Since when do statements end with a '?' :thinking:

Well, this is the [inside joke] durg [/inside joke] section. I would think a person could choose their own punctuation.

:p

[Hypomanic]

prometheus added to this post, 61 minutes and 56 seconds later...



Well, this is the [inside joke] durg [/inside joke] section. I would think a person could choose their own punctuation.

:p

Same here! And that's why I chose a '?' for my non-statement.
Thanks for the validation! :lovestruck:

[danalaina]

methamphtamines however, have taken me places I don't care to visit ever again

yep. like cleaning a bathroom. for three hours. with a toothbrush.

i'm with you, though. i tried a little of this and a little of that when i was younger. nothing impressed me much (favorably). i haven't done any recreational drugs in years, but i don't regret what i did do.

[ShaiGar]

What's it with guys and steroids? :thinking:

I am not interested in it as most guys are, as a crutch.

I am interested in using it to help give me a kick start with my working out and then quit. It has far too many dangers such as erectile dysfunction for me to consider using it longterm. Plus I am scared of needles.


I just see it as another scientific advancement that can benefit humankind, or destroy those who use it.

[bucolic_]

Since when do statements end with a '?' :thinking:

Punctuation aside, it's obvious what you were implying, and it's unfounded.

[Hypomanic]

Punctuation aside, it's obvious what you were implying, and it's unfounded.

You're misled.

[bucolic_]

You're misled.

Ok, care to elaborate? Misled about what you implied, or misled in my opposition to your implication?

[Hypomanic]

Ok, care to elaborate? Misled about what you implied, or misled in my opposition to your implication?

In what I implied. I really was asking an innocent question. I'm not accusing all men of steroid usage, nor am I judging. I just don't see woman that use steroids, yet in my English class in proof reading papers, I've proof read two papers on steroids (written by guys, just this semester alone). I'm not trying to imply anything, rather I'm inquiring.





Hypomanic added to this post, 3 minutes and 8 seconds later...

I just see it as another scientific advancement that can benefit humankind, or destroy those who use it.

Wow. What a cool way of looking at taboo things (taboo as labeled by society).

[Lucid]

yep. like cleaning a bathroom. for three hours. with a toothbrush.

I never got big on cleaning. It has taken me to some sketchy motel rooms where people live 4 to a room and you have to scratch on the door so the dealer knows you aren't the feds and they all spend a lot of time picking at their faces and peeking out the blinds. Or hanging out with really scary people and realizing, when you sobered up, what kind of danger you had put yourself in.

A friend of mine got into meth for awhile and ended up owing a lot of money. The people he owed kidnapped his girlfriend and stole his car.
Meth is one of the scariest drugs I've encountered. Because it's so easy to become addicted to it without quite realizing (I was lucky to see where things were going) and because it makes most people violent and paranoid.

[Blendy]

I've never done drugs (outside of alcohol). Most people assume this has to do with my morals/values, but in actuality, I would try drugs if I didn't have anxieties about not being in control of my body. I think it would be an interesting experience.

[bucolic_]

In what I implied. I really was asking an innocent question. I'm not accusing all men of steroid usage, nor am I judging. I just don't see woman that use steroids, yet in my English class in proof reading papers, I've proof read two papers on steroids (written by guys, just this semester alone). I'm not trying to imply anything, rather I'm inquiring.

Fair enough.

[anul]

Cannabis and coffee help me get through the day. Sometimes Adderall XR too.
I have a huge desire to try peyote.
Alcohol is terrible, except some scotch.

[Caramel]

I drink alcohol every now and then. I keep it to moderate amounts, because I'm worried about my braincells too much. Never done other drugs, I'd like to try it once just to measure the effects, but I don't really know how to get my hands on them.

Does theine in tea count? I drink a lot of tea.

[Danisty]

It depends on what you mean by "doing" drugs. How often or recently does it need to be to qualify?

[Lucid]

It depends on what you mean by "doing" drugs. How often or recently does it need to be to qualify?

However often or recently you think counts. Ever, I guess.

[Hdier]

Out of curiosity, what if you did it once, but didn't know it was a drug at the time (such as smoking a cigarette laced with a drug), would you count that?

[Lucid]

Out of curiosity, what if you did it once, but didn't know it was a drug at the time (such as smoking a cigarette laced with a drug), would you count that?

Personally, I would count it. Whether you choose to or not is up to you.

[Booko]

You forgot 'caffeine', that's my poison (and the only one, I intend to keep it that way).

Yup, that's my only drug. My chiropractor has been trying to get me to quit for years, but I told her we all have vices so I tried to choose something relatively benign.

If she wants to prescribe a glass of good red wine with chateaubriand for "medicinal" purposes, I'd be only too happy to oblige. :D

[Danisty]

However often or recently you think counts. Ever, I guess.I can't answer the poll until I understand what was meant by it. However, I can give some information and you're free to interpret it as you like. I smoked pot very infrequently in high school (by infrequent, I mean once every 3 or 4 months). That was over 12 years ago. Currently, I drink alcohol about once every couple of weeks, I drink coffee everyday, and I smoke cigarettes several times a day.

[Epicurus]

Not yet, atleast not anything else than Coffe and Cigarettes and that very rarely. Tough Im planning on doing some DXM and other legal hallucinogens, as they aren't very addictive or bad to your body as most other kinds of drugs. And Im planning on growing some opium when the summer comes.

[AntimonyLegault]

I used to do Dextromethorphan in super-high doses for days on end. I would even steal to get it (till I got caught). As it was a disassociative, I found it useful for 'understanding' as it would pull me away from my conventions and let me freely consider others when under its effects. I consider most drugs to be 'forbidden fruit' however, as most people cannot control how and why they use things, moreover the great benefits of certain ones are compounded by their great dangers.

[DeepPurple]

None. I have tried Pot before but it wasn't my cup of tea. I couldn't even smoke it right.

[niffer]

Alcohol on special occasions or small amounts once in a while, but otherwise nothing else. I get lots of natural highs.

I'm planning to try pot/weed one day, if I'm able to obtain some without any additives.

[PortInStorm]

Anyways, I feel there's a lot I could say on the topic, but I think I'm going into too many tangents, and I've gone on about this for a long time now. In summation, I find drug use in my case to be logical, and (sometimes) enjoyable. Even when the drugs are making me feel uncomfortable things, I always have been able to weather the storm, and come back stronger for it. And I get a lot of excitement from it, in a relatively controllable way. Those are my rationalizations, anyways.
I can't tell you how amazing it is to hear a person who uses have some understanding of the cognitive and neurological consequences- not just their own psychological experience of a substance. And you mentioned them in a pretty balanced reveal of a lifestyle that includes illicits - thank you.

And for the record, as someone who worked in a mental health floor and saw those who haven't fared so well (with illicit, prescribed, alcoholism- and by "haven't fared so well" I'm talking from constant memory loss to uncontrollable body movement to absolute devastation of IQ to debilitating mental illness, to the permanent loss of your employment, independence, and control over your emotions, to losing your kids, jail, having no home ....), I'm totally against taking any drugs (perscription, herbs, whatever) without doing your own homework first and making an informed decision. I take birth control and St. John's Wort, caffeine, and not enough alcohol to kill neurons.

[Paragon]

mmm drugs.. aghrahgrgdgr

[BadMojo]

I do alcohol still, but I haven't done real drugs in years. Drugs are fun. That is until your friends starts dying. I'll never touch that crap again.

[SonneVolt]

After reading the previous posts, I'm rather surprised to see how few people struggle with drinking. I thought for sure, at seeing the thread title, that there would be a hefty amount of fellow INTJ's fighting alcohol abuse. It has taken a great deal of effort for me to bring my drinking under control. At writing this, it seems to me now that it must have less to do with inclination of personality type, and more to physiology.

[Umbrex]

i occasionally do either pure MDMA (XTC), Ketamine, amphetamine or cocain.

Im an elecctronic music lover and it comes with the environment. Did it fror nearly 10 years and i'll prbably never stop completely. Drugs in small amounts will do you no harm. I prefer narcotics over alcohol any day!

[Bossy Mom]

I've never taken ILLEGAL drugs (took pain killers after removal of wisdom teeth and once after an operation - and had my children naturally without drug), but have been sober over 21 years after treatment for alcoholism (I was a wino). I loathe the smell of cigarettes, but love the smell of a great pipe tobacco (did that for a short time -- I know it's strange for a woman to smoke a pipe, but it was like having a great cup of coffee to me).

[Maitri1970]

Drugs have never made sense to me. They seem indulgent and irresponsible. I use music and films for that. I do like gin and tonics though!

[karen]

I did all kinds of stuff when I was younger but then suddenly and effortlessly grew out of it... all except the caffeine and nicotine which were dropped more recently. I simply don't have the time or money to waste on that kind of stuff... really, does anyone?

[gzeus]

Not any, but now that you brought it up...

Not beaing a sociable kind of guy does have its advantages - When you want to score some pot, you don't know who to turn to...

[Rohsiph]

After reading the previous posts, I'm rather surprised to see how few people struggle with drinking. I thought for sure, at seeing the thread title, that there would be a hefty amount of fellow INTJ's fighting alcohol abuse. It has taken a great deal of effort for me to bring my drinking under control. At writing this, it seems to me now that it must have less to do with inclination of personality type, and more to physiology.

I think for a lot of the younger folk here (myself included): it helps a lot if you never start :)

Glad to hear you're fighting your negative tendencies, though. Good luck with the struggle.

[zero]

I'm a regular pot smoker (at least once a day) and I also drink alcohol every now and then but less than what I smoke. I've also tried some mushrooms which were quite fun actually.

However, I'm only into hallucinations and the mental clarity I get from weed of excellent quality so I don't believe I'll try anything more than those and LSD maybe.

About the clarity of mind, it's one of the most exciting feelings I've ever felt, it's like my mind transcends to a new level of thinking and wandering, while I'm in that state I can do whatever I want in my mind i.e. create music(which I forget afterwards:P), travel through earth, space etc it's actually daydreaming on drugs :)

[Gonzo]

However, I'm only into hallucinations and the mental clarity I get from weed of excellent quality so I don't believe I'll try anything more than those and LSD maybe.

Smoking weed to GAIN mental clarity? I think repeatedly pounding your head against a brick wall gives you the same clarity :laugh:

No offense ;)

[Nightelf]

I'm a caffeine addict, but I decided to say goodbye to it after I finish my exams in January..

[zero]

Smoking weed to GAIN mental clarity? I think repeatedly pounding your head against a brick wall gives you the same clarity :laugh:

No offense ;)

Some types of weed, act like mind openers. It has to be extremely potent and have a big percentage of THC to work like that though. If you ever come across that type of weed, smoke some and you will see that I am correct ;D

[Lucid]

Some types of weed, act like mind openers. It has to be extremely potent and have a big percentage of THC to work like that though. If you ever come across that type of weed, smoke some and you will see that I am correct ;D

You know, I've smoked A LOT of weed in my time, and I've had all kinds of it. I've never had the experience you describe. I don't doubt that it affects you that way, however I think it may be a body chemistry thing for you. In my experience pot can affect different people in drastically different ways. Some people I know can't smoke it at all because it gives them migraines, or makes them extremely paranoid. For me, it generally makes me very sleepy and relaxed. Often it makes my thinking rather sluggish.

[Gonzo]

Some types of weed, act like mind openers. It has to be extremely potent and have a big percentage of THC to work like that though. If you ever come across that type of weed, smoke some and you will see that I am correct ;D

I've had more then my fair share of drugs already. Waaaaay more. Didn't give me any mental clarity though. All I got was a 3 year period that I only remember fractions of, and several very, VERY painful (not to mention important) lessons about life and drugs ;)

So: Been there, done that and I think I'll pass :thumbsup:

[terencec]

Never! I believe it is more pain when I wake up. It won't help to solve the problems.

But I think philosophy or religion can be considered as drug. They may be more powerful and the effect will last much longer. So I would like to do/smoke 'philosophy'! It is free.

[Antares]

I love English Morning Tea, Earl Grey and Chinese Jasmine tea. Can't say I'm addicted though. I DO enjoy them immensely :)

[danalaina]

i think the bathroom cleaning is what did me in, really. though i like having a very clean bathroom, i don't particularly enjoy the cleaning. any drug that could make me enjoy it clearly goes beyond altering my mood and actually alters my personality. i'm not a big fan of that. =)

[Lucid]

i think the bathroom cleaning is what did me in, really. though i like having a very clean bathroom, i don't particularly enjoy the cleaning. any drug that could make me enjoy it clearly goes beyond altering my mood and actually alters my personality. i'm not a big fan of that. =)

I lol'd :)

[Capt57]

If your too scared to do LSD but are curious about the effects, just read Aldous Huxley's book The Doors of Perception. Huxley is an exceptional writer.

[Marmalade]

Right after highschool, I did quite a bit of drugs. I smoked pot some, but didn't like it. I did LSD more times than I can remember and I did mushrooms once. I'm glad I never did any real hard drugs like Cocaine or Heroin.

Nowadays, the worst drugs I do are caffeine and a rare cigarette.

[pavman]

I do drink alcohol moderately, but didn't realize it was in the list (shame on me for thinking this was only about illegal drugs).

[spiritdetectivegirl]

I agree with the most of you; None save coffee. And herbal tea. Those I am addicted too.

[Scorne]

I was thinking of starting to drink red wine as my diet plan suggests, but in moderation.

Other than that, I selected none.

[mono]

If your too scared to do LSD but are curious about the effects, just read Aldous Huxley's book The Doors of Perception. Huxley is an exceptional writer.
reading a book instead of the experience? do a low dose first and build your way up..have some benzo's (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) available, in case of an emergency.
Prepare yourself a bit (think about set & setting!).
I think most people will value the experience when done right.

related urls:
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[Ytterbium]

You forgot 'caffeine', that's my poison (and the only one, I intend to keep it that way).Same here. I rarely consume alcohol so I clicked none in the poll.

[pallasathena]

I didn't click anything. I'm very anti-drug (illegal), but I'll have a glass every blue moon. I'm too much of a control freak for drugs. Drugs are a slavemaster.

[suzyk]

Yeah, I do Advil Pills.

No, really?

I am addicted to coke, though. Not the drug, you idiot. The soft drink.

[notoppings]

Like several here I experimented but currently only do nicotine, I would like to smoke pot but with my frequent drug testing my job isn't worth the risk.

[bubbles]

I'm addicted to sugar. I drink tea every morning though I avoid coffee. I also take piracetam. Occasionally, I would take cold/cough medicine for no other reason except to make me feel happier. If you were to ask me, "Do you do drugs?" in real life, I would respond "no."

[Scantilyclad]

I drink a bit of caffiene every now and then, and have had an alcoholic beverage on occasions.

I don't abuse otc drugs, but i do take them if i have a headache or something!

[integratedvelocity]

Caffeine, too much of a control freak for anything else.

[vkut79]

Do people find coffee addictive? I never found it to be addicting personally. I would have no problem drinking it several times over a short period of time and then not drinking it for a while afterwards.

[sriv]

I do not know if people are addicted to it as much as depending on it. The question is if it causes a form of withdrawl not to drink it.

I am addicted to nothing but video games.

[thegnat]

I do not know if people are addicted to it as much as depending on it. The question is if it causes a form of withdrawl not to drink it.

I am addicted to nothing but video games.

Caffeine *is* addictive. I've seen people have forms of withdrawal from not drinking their coffee and/or soda (though not to as much of an extreme, I would assume that the caffeine in soda is a smaller amount, however I have seen people who drink it *all the time*).

[amayamom]

really I fell that it is all about moderation, in everything. Be smart and careful.

[Victoria Silver]

I drink tea (Earl Grey is probably my favorite "straight" tea, and I like a good chai) sometimes, and alcoholic beverages (if they taste good, like some wines and many liqueurs) once in a while. Nothing else (including tobacco in any form.) I have never been drunk or even tipsy. I can't stand the smell or taste of coffee or beer.

[searcher]

Caffeine.
Not intending to go anywhere near narcotics, pot, etc even though the place I live is well supplied (with pot I mean, not narcotics).
Alcohol? Maybe, but it would be in small amounts.
I'm not actually legal yet so that simplifies things somewhat.

[Sappho]

I like to smoke a bit of the green stuff. Great for the imagination and creativity. I almost always have a note book with me to write the stuff down, as it's forgotten genius by the morning otherwise. When I re-read my ideas, about 80% get the initial ok, the rest are just off the wall nonsense.

Otherwise, it's caffine, cigarettes, over the counter pain relief for the occasional headache, and small amounts of alcohol as it puts me to sleep.

[dcm]

Beer, wine, and pot. Never tried anything else, but looking forward to killing some more brain cells.

[HeartlessWolf]

All I've done is weed, alcohol, and a little bit of cocaine...I never really got into drugs though, as I find them rather unnecessary and I ONLY use them for recreational purposes when I'm with friends. I'm glad that a lot of us here aren't much into drugs, this shows that we as a whole can see the irrationality of consuming yourself in a false reality....
Imagination is NOT false reality when it is incorporated into our plans, therefore it's not the same thing when we "daydream" and when we're on drugs...

[curiousjane]

Of course I take drugs. ;)

I'm an Exedrin Migraine junkie. I have a bottle in my purse, my car, my house, and my office. And if I don't really (because, well, I didn't check before I wrote this), I should.

In a pinch, I'll down an ibuprofin or Tylenol.

Other than that: Diet Coke. And dark chocolate. And ice cream. Those are my big, bad vices.

And this forum is slowly working its way into my system. Sometimes, if I'm honest with myself, I feel withdrawal symptoms. And I have to come back for an INTJ fix.

[azelismia]

I'd answer this if it were not open to google bot. as it is, I plead the 5th

[dandylion]

No... what the hell is the point of doing drugs? Waste of money and time that could be spent making money.

[brooklyncs]

I do.
Caramel ice cream, Dr.Pepper (otherwise known as crack in my world,) and chocolate.


How many people in this thread are lying?

[NicoMT]

Only caffeine which I consume very small amounts of (decaf or green tea about three times a week). I have no desire to try anything else.

Have any of you seen the show "Intervention"?

[MrEPenguin]

Hell no, that shit destroys your brain and your body.

[ElstonGunn]

I'm a big fan of cheap black coffee. Although I chug it down like there's no tomorrow, I don't find it addicting at all if I miss a day. I also recently quit smoking cigarettes, without any major problems, so maybe it's just me.

I also like booze a lot, provided that it's relatively decent stuff. I've been developing a taste for expensive scotch lately. Gin is a favorite of mine, too. I'll try just about any alcohol as long as it's got some sort of character to it. I'm not a big fan of "Hey Let's Get Smashed Woo!!" punch--i.e., Kool-Aid or fruit juice with vodka in it and/or cheap beer.

[Grizzly]

just about everything, minus the needle stuff.

I tend to treat body and mind like a 4x4 vehicle:
- take it places its not supposed to go
- see what things it can smash through
- see if it keeps going after failing to smash through something
- scratches, dents, and damage only add character

Why isnt nicotine included?
Which by the way I LOVE (2packs/day)

[Mozzes]

I drink a glass of wine or a dark beer every once in a while, but mostly no drugs. I've never even smoked pot and I even refrain from taking asprin for the 1 or 2 headaches I get a year.

I don't necessarily have any problems with people who use recreationally as long as I'm not around if they get busted. Hardcore addicts kind of disgust me though.

[HazMathew]

I'm a fan of pot, opiates, and the occasional valium. I've also taken LSD and mushrooms on numerous occasions in college. How am I not a dead beat? Beats me, all in moderation these days I guess. Also, this is a quick post as I'm looking for my 2nd post so I can view some links. :)

[iMiki]

No and I shall never do...ever.

[Zippo]

Have tried alcohol, once, it wasn't exciting so I have no reason to use it again. Coffee, yes, maybe, once in a month, I've never got addicted. It just tastes good *w*

[Uberfuhrer]

I take Adderall (amphetamine), but it was prescribed by a doctor.

I've never tried any unprescribed drug, not even marijuana. But I've never been exposed to such things growing up.

I tried cigarettes once or twice, but I didn't like them.

I drink alcohol occasionally, though.

And I'm pretty much addicted to Mountain Dew (caffeine). Also, I'm addicted to computers and video games, which are pretty much the same principle as drugs.

[mental drift]

Caffeine primarily, Mountain Dew, Tea.

An occasional motrin for an injury, but not enough to vote for.

I stopped alcohol and tobacco about 13 years ago, and never did drugs though I was offered them in high school, just didn't make sense to me.

[Serket]

No, government intelligence services have mandatory drug testing, and I want to keep my career options open.

[Chimerical]

I smoke cigarettes [about two cigs a day], drink whenever I go to a party or bar, which can be frequent but recently hasn't. When I drink at bars I usually end up drinking only 3 or 4 drinks for the most part because I go to bars to try to socialize.

I smoke pot maybe once or twice a year. I've accidentally done E. And that's about it.

I'm thinking about quitting the nicotine.

[Freak]

Never...don't want to lose control over my mind (my true self).

[blue tie]

For those of you who have taken LSD, could you describe to inquiring minds as to what it's like and what effect it has had on your life?

I read one of those trashy Steve Jobs biographies and I hear the myth that one of the top three things he's ever done in his life is do LSD. And since I like the power and level of taste that Steve Jobs commands, I'm wondering if LSD really is this important.

For science.

[spittingvenom]

For those of you who have taken LSD, could you describe to inquiring minds as to what it's like and what effect it has had on your life?

I read one of those trashy Steve Jobs biographies and I hear the myth that one of the top three things he's ever done in his life is do LSD. And since I like the power and level of taste that Steve Jobs commands, I'm wondering if LSD really is this important.

For science.

LSD is something if you are a little bit curious of you have to try. I know so many INTJs don't want to not be in "control" or fear thier emotions so much they are unwilling to experiment....but my description: a new way of seeing yourself and the world...very much worth it. Keep in mind to be in a comfortable, stress free environment with people you trust. Looking forward to some p. psilobilin (shrooms) in a couple of weeks.

I have never felt out of control on acid...honestly, just more aware of things I am completely blind to in more conscious states.

Enjoy.

[nikewong]

wine appreciater

[Radamisto]

I drink a glass or two of wine with my meal every now and then.

I also drink some decent quality green tea from time to time - but that too classifies in my books as food.

[Mozzes]

LSD is something if you are a little bit curious of you have to try. I know so many INTJs don't want to not be in "control" or fear thier emotions so much they are unwilling to experiment....but my description: a new way of seeing yourself and the world...very much worth it. Keep in mind to be in a comfortable, stress free environment with people you trust. Looking forward to some p. psilobilin (shrooms) in a couple of weeks.

I have never felt out of control on acid...honestly, just more aware of things I am completely blind to in more conscious states.

Enjoy.

I'd be quite careful about LSD and other psychadelics since they're capable of triggering severe psychosis even in people that have been using for years. Doesn't seem worth the risk IMO.

[Aven]

No, no alcohol either, don't see the point.

[PRBori]

I've never in my life done any type of drugs, smoke, or drink alcohol, and I certainly have no desired to do so in the future either.

[Elfrun]

I like to consider myself a dedicated wine researcher ;)

[Genuine]

I only do drugs when I'm actually sick, and in need of a treatment. Okay, I have caffeine now and then but nothing that's illegal in my area.
Tylenol, anyone?
...illegal drugs are costly.

[Jeannette]

None, but I do live with a person who smokes weed.

[PcChip]

Addiction is a chemical *dependence*.

No. Addiction and dependence are two totally different things.

[Beery Swine]

I think there should have been more choices because I would do just about any drug if someone offered, but I'm not going to pay for it. I'd rather pay for a jumbo jack or a cheap used game.

So, no, I don't do drugs nor seek them out, but I would imbibe if offered. It's nice not having the "addiction" gene.

[jakattack]

I've never done any drugs besides alcohol, but I have been thinking and researching them a lot lately. The other day I sat down with a notebook to get my thoughts and ideas about drugs together. My friend (whom I suspect to be an ENFP) asked me to explain my feelings to him, and so he got this message in his inbox:

Ok. So here it goes. *ahem* Lately I've been thinking about weed and other psychedelic drugs I've always wondered about them. I'm pretty curious about shrooms and shit like that, I'd love to have my perceptions completely fucked and my mind blown so that I have to think out side of the box I built myself into. But anyways, as far as weed, you know that whenever people ask me to smoke I just say no, and make up some quick excuse because we're at a party, and yeah. But really I didn't know why I don't smoke. So finally I figured it out. It's because I'm afraid. Seriously, that's it. Not because I'm a bad ass, lol.

For real though, I'm was scared that I might smoke and lose all my motivation and money, or be like a stereotypical stoner. And as fucked up as it is I sometimes feel like better or something than people that smoke, I guess because I've always been raised that way. So basically I'm being judgemental. Also, I don't do drugs because I like it when people look at me and come up with idea of who they think I am and what they think I do, when really it's not like that. So this is really ironic too, another reason why I don't smoke is because I don't want people to think that I gave in to peer pressure. In other words, I'm afraid that people will think that I'm afraid what people think, haha. That's so fucking retarded, I don't want to be one of those people that's just wants to please others and be "special" and shit.

Alright, so now the MAIN reason that I haven't tried shit is because I'm afraid of "losing myself". I've always seen people that tried drugs as being lost. Like they are searching for something, or running from something, trying to just get high and numb (mostly that's like narcotics I suppose, but you know what I mean). I know that I could never lose myself like that because I'm have to fix problems and figure everything out. But I guess to me, losing yourself is like doing things you don't really like doing, or not reaching your full potential, or going against what you believe is right.

But I think I'd have a better self concept and shit if I am confident in myself and my decisions versus those people that just run around scared of doing anything that society deems inappropriate. It's dumb for people to get their feelings of pride and self worth from their personal decisions about drugs and shit like that, thinking they're better than anyone else, fucking shallow. I don't want to be one of those people. So yeah. Fuck people, I'm going to try a bit, I know when it's a problem and I'll stop before it becomes one.

THE END

*whew* :P

[I guess I should point out that my friend and I are college students at the 2nd biggest party school in the US to kind of put this letter in context. Also, I probably will not smoke or do drugs purely in a social setting because this does not really appeal to me, I'd rather be focused inwardly on creativity and such and not around a bunch of people.]

[anul]

For those of you who have taken LSD, could you describe to inquiring minds as to what it's like and what effect it has had on your life?

I read one of those trashy Steve Jobs biographies and I hear the myth that one of the top three things he's ever done in his life is do LSD. And since I like the power and level of taste that Steve Jobs commands, I'm wondering if LSD really is this important.

For science.

I did LSD for the first time over the weekend. It was a wonderful experience, I giggled like a fool all day long, and listened to live music. I was perfectly content and happy, it was a wonderful experience.

[manger]

I drink socially and smoke marijuana on weekends. I have used amphetamines a handful of times to get work done.

MDMA was a life changing drug for me. I first did it at a party, but even in that setting it helped me work out some internal stuff I had been struggling with. It also helped me become more social. It was like 6 months of therapy in one night (edit: it also felt really fucking good). I've done it only a few times and don't think I will do it again anytime soon. I highly recommend this for anyone who wishes to become less of a tight-ass, just make sure you know and trust your dealer.

I don't feel it's my time to try hallucinogens. I get paranoid enough as it is with smoking weed. In fact I haven't smoked in three weeks (this is a lot for me) because my most recent smoke sessions have been so awful.

[Caesar]

I do alcohol still, but I haven't done real drugs in years. Drugs are fun. That is until your friends starts dying. I'll never touch that crap again.

Excellent comment, short and to the point. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

But back to the question at hand - not guilty. Never tried any drugs and never will. Maybe *try* some alcohol, but that's it.

[Flamethrower]

Basically caffeine only...... but I consume so much of it I may as well be doing harder drugs! I like the occasional cigarette too.... about once a year because I don't want to wreck my health. But if it wasn't so bad for you I think I would be a chain smoker.

Pretty much like many of the other comments here I am not much against anyone doing drugs in a responsible sort of way. For me personally I hate any sort of experience of not being in control of my mind so that is why I am not attracted to doing drugs myself. That and also the fact I tend to have a rather 'dark' sort of mind and I think I would most likely just have terrible experiences. I already have a vividly intense sort of imagination.... it doesn't need any help!

Oh, on another note though I do seem to always have WAY too much energy and so I guess my other 'drug' is really loud, driven music like Rammstein! And I also tend to write quite violent music myself. Seems to be the best way to expend all the excess energy I have.... though also I think it just creates a lot more as well! :cool:

[Brutananadilewski]

A level 5 mushroom trip can be the most liberating event ever experienced. Reality and your ego cease to exist, and the insights and perspectives are indescribably valuable. It's permanent too; my entire perspective on life and philosophy have shifted a lot since I started tripping, and I see it as something invaluable to myself in terms of understanding and self-discovery. Why on earth this stuff is illegal, I don't know.

A level 5 description from shroomery.org:

Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist! Satori enlightenment (and other such labels).

[f3nr1l]

I do none and plan to not start. Alcohol, I drink once in a great while, and don't really enjoy it. I habitually force myself to eat and drink things I don't like for sake of the argument "someday, I might be required to subsist on just this". Honestly though, the only alcohol I have had that wasn't horridly terrible was rum and tequila, the latter being as far as I'm concerned, the best tasting alcohol ever.

I'm just the designated driver type. Which is why I'm also one to be at parties sometimes. If I have acquaintances that want to get drunk, that's fine, but I simply can't stand to see a life get wasted because of a bad decision. Though, at the same time, my conscience tells me "let them do what they want, the gene pool is better off without them". :P

[Grizzly]

I did LSD for the first time over the weekend. It was a wonderful experience, I giggled like a fool all day long, and listened to live music. I was perfectly content and happy, it was a wonderful experience.

Were you at Bonnarroo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the sum of the reactions are:
- "No" not interested. I like to maintain control of myself
- "Sometimes" But not a fan
- "YES" It changed the way I think about the world

I've come across in previous posts as definitively in the YES category.
Though I have recommended mild alcohol use as a method to overcome social anxiety in group settings (I do mean parties, not on the bus or in class), I certainly will not recommend that you must do psychedelics.

For the same reason that many have specified, these substances do make you lose control of your mind to varying degrees.

For some people it is an extraordinary experience. Almost like getting to look through someone else's eyes.
For others it is intensely uncomfortable, like having a song repeating through your head endlessly that you cant turn off, or like a waking nightmare where your mind/world is falling apart.
I've been fortunate/unfortunate enough to have been through either end of that spectrum.

All that I do recommend is that you research the substance, its effects and the legal repercussions (they are illegal after all)
A good resource for just about any substance, with articles ranging from neurology white papers to SmokeytheBear's favorite Bud Brownie recipies.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

But the most important advice I can give whether you are doing Salvia or LSD is have a sober monitor (or two), preferably people you trust, and/or someone with experience in the drug.
Not just for the worst case scenario, but also for a sounding board to bounce epiphanies off of.

[MysString]

I've done meth, ecstasy, cocaine, LSD, and, of course, marijuana. I only smoke the good green now, though. ;D And occasionally, at that.

I sort of started an ecstasy trend among my co-workers and people affiliated with my workplace. I didn't mean to, I just wanted to try it. But the guy who got it for me started selling it after that and... there ya go.

Then, I sort of got addicted to cocaine, because my roommate and best friend kept bringing it home. I cared about her a lot, damn it, but she just had to keep getting it after I told her to stop. I don't associate with her anymore, and she's still a coke-head. A sad story. :sick:

[IF3157]

I try to keep my mind and body clean. However, I occasionally have alcohol. It is usually a few glasses of wine at most so I think I am still clean.

[manger]

A level 5 mushroom trip can be the most liberating event ever experienced. Reality and your ego cease to exist, and the insights and perspectives are indescribably valuable. It's permanent too; my entire perspective on life and philosophy have shifted a lot since I started tripping, and I see it as something invaluable to myself in terms of understanding and self-discovery. Why on earth this stuff is illegal, I don't know.

A level 5 description from shroomery.org:

Get this book

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[Oscarvan]

Interesting thread. Adding age would increase the significance of data and opinions.

I did most of what's on the list, and much of it in excess. Started in 1978. Cut down to cigs and booze by 1986 (peeing in bottles for employer) and quit everything in 2000.

Lot of talk about dependency and addiction. I would have expected more thoughts about self medication in this crowd. Drugs make the square peg round. It makes the pain go away, or maybe you just don't care anymore. This is the part that keeps you into them.

At some point, if they don't do you in, you start realizing that there is a price for everything. Physically, mentally and materially. If you keep going beyond what the little voice in your head considers reasonable, you are an addict, period.

Some people, including myself, reach a point where you can't fool yourself anymore, and we just give it up. This is usually precipitated by a dramatic event. In my case trashing a new car and coming within inches of severely injuring the love of my life. I have become a conscious non-user. I see more damage than benefit. I live every day fully conscious. I wake up every morning feeling the best I can.

So, just a cup of tea for me. And for you that are just starting out on the road: I understand what you like about it. Just remember, at some point you will look back and wonder if it was all worth it. Answering "no" can be a very lonely moment, I don't care how much of a self reliant super human you are. And it will take great strength to look forward again, shake it off, smile and keep going. Many cannot find the door when they want to leave. (Joe Walsh, paraphrased.) I have seen many, many, slip under the water.

If anyone struggles with these issues and would like to talk to someone who has been there they may pm me, and we can try to have a meaningful discussion, in confidence and without expectation.

__________________________________________________ ______________

It's permanent too; my entire perspective on life and philosophy have shifted a lot since I started tripping

Agreed, although I now realize there are different roads to this destination, and some are better than others.

[denaria]

Beer. Gin. Whisky. Wine occasionally.
Not generally to excess, but they help me deal with life.

[anul]

Were you at Bonnarroo?

All that I do recommend is that you research the substance, its effects and the legal repercussions (they are illegal after all)
A good resource for just about any substance, with articles ranging from neurology white papers to SmokeytheBear's favorite Bud Brownie recipies.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



No I was at Hookahville.

And yes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. is the best site for research. Safety first!!

[Ehanah]

I don't take any drugs... I've experienced pot and alcool when I was a teenager, but these kind of substances have really nothing to do with me. I don't like the feeling of loosing control of myself and/or of what I'm doing.

[Synnik]

No but I'd like to try marijuana, shrooms and LSD.

[v1cious]

the greatest drug in the world: cocaine.

[Dave C C]

Caffeine and nicotine our my poisons of choice.

[Grizzly]

No I was at Hookahville.

And yes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. is the best site for research. Safety first!!

heard of Hookaville, never been.
Where do they hold it?

[Flamethrower]

And yes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) is the best site for research. Safety first!!

Ah, so this is my page To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. :nice:

Interesting site.

[deevee]

I love weed. I love psychedelics and if I could I would go on one endless trip, or maybe I am on one already? Oh I do alcohol too but It is a love/hate relationship.

[Airius]

I have a history.

Marijuana,
OTC pills,
Ecstasy,
PCP (Angel Dust),
LSD (Acid),
Cocaine.

That was some years ago.

Now I'll have a beer or two on ocassion, and I'm a cigarette smoker.
Ocassionally I'll also smoke shisha (flavored tobacco and nicotine) from a hookah.

[Jesseh]

Do abusing diet pills count? I can't get enough of them!

[ScurvyRose]

Caffine, nicotine, and an occasional glass.