The Profession of Arms

[Theoden]

Military careers.

How does it / has it worked out for you? Regular or reserve forces?

Many assume I can't take orders because I routinely challenge ideas. Just the opposite, in fact. I can completely rationalize the notion that I have been Ordered to do something, and thus (most of) the responsibility as to why/what-if is no longer something I need to waste a lot of time thinking about.

Where have your INTJ military careers lead? How did you find a use for your system-building skills? Did you just stick through it until you achieved a more influential rank?

[Meyer]

I would imagine that an INTJ who took a deep interest in military strategy and reached a rank where he was more or less in command would be in his own utopia. The position of having your orders obeyed implicitly in the carrying out of your plans would, I'm sure, prove to be amazingly satisfying.

[Nomad]

My INTJ military career led to private security contracting in high risk environments specializing in organizing personal security for VIP's in order to protect them from terrorism arising from religious fundamentalism. I did other things as well, but with is what I spent most of my time on.

During my time in the military, I was on a QRF for counterterrorist operations and did intelligence gathering when we were not required to troubleshoot.( That is, someone causes trouble, and we would shoot them.)

Over time, I came to the realization that the individuals and the institutions that they were employed by represent one of the greatest threats to the continued existence of mankind as a dominant species on the planet. In short, I came to the conclusion that the system I was being asked to risk my life for will not work over the long term.

Now I'm studying sustainable organic agriculture with the idea that when the system collapses, Either I or my children will able to eat.

All in all, i think a military career is a good choice, as long as you are willing to work within the limits imposed and you keep your eyes and mind open.

-Nomad

[BloozeGit]

Mine was a 2.5 yr conscription at 18 years of age. While I didn't entirely enjoy it I would say that at least I found a sort of niche that fulfilled a certain intellectual need.

After a few months of grunt training and NCO course (yeah I know that's really short) I got posted to the Combat Engineers training school to become a section leader. As luck would have it the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) unit was recruiting and I figured I'd might as well do something more interesting while I'm in here, so off I went.

The selection process involved a 2 hour written test that seemed like a personality / IQ evaluation, as best as I can remember. Just as well, since I can imagine there are certain personality types you don't want doing this kind of stuff. I don't know if they were looking for INTJs specifically, but I'm sure they wanted to ascertain some critical personality traits.

EOD (and IEDD) tasks require an "out-of-the-box" approach and every situation needs to be evaluated on its own. There are guidelines and procedures, but no "drills" carved in stone to run through as an infantry platoon might do. There's a certain amount of creative freedom in how you tackle a scenario, but you do have to be logical and consistent in your reasoning and explaining your actions. Being decisive (no, it's not just about the blue wire or red wire!) and calm under pressure is a big part of the job. Working in a smaller team than your average infantry section (as a conscript I was the most junior EOD specialist) allows for more conducive brainstorming and discussion, and it's not always the highest ranked person that comes up with the best solution. I must add though, it's always the highest ranked person that does the...honours. ;)

Now that I put it down in words it seems like an INTJ haven really. I didn't have to directly lead the team, just the enlisted men under my charge, but I got to contribute ideas and shout out (figuratively speaking of course!) if something wasn't right, as long as I was sure of what I was saying. Plus, there were some cool toys to play with. Well, they were cool for the first five minutes anyway, being responsible for making sure they are all ship-shape with no excuses taken does dull the cool factor somewhat.

That's just the operational and training part of it though. The day-to-day life is much more military BS and a lot less conducive for an INTJ. I was glad to get out, but I'll say it was a life-shaping experience with a few very good (and hard) lessons learnt.

[logan235711]

What were some of those lessons?

[ShaiGar]

What were some of those lessons?

"don't press the red button"

[BloozeGit]

To put it in an INTJ context, perhaps the most important lesson I learnt was to treat everyone with respect, even those below you in the hierachy. My unit was structured a bit differently from a conventional combat unit and thus there was a lot more requirement for interaction between ranks.

When something needs to get done in the military, as the "cold, emotionless and efficient" INTJ it seems more expedient to pull rank and use threat of punishment to extract information/items/behaviour and at times this is justified. However, what goes round comes around and its very possible that the enlisted soldier you just ticked off (or worse) would have a way of getting back at you, especially those working in logistics/admin. They know the system way better and can probably find a way to screw you over when you least expect it, like insisting on the thousand and one signatures required to draw an item you needed yesterday.

I've had my ass pulled out of the fire on a few occasions by enlistees, and I attribute that to the cordial working relations I established (being a fellow conscript helped) which would have been frowned upon by dyed-in-the-wool, spit-and-polish sergeant majors who would have their pace stick surgically attached to their armpits if they could. Usually there was always a better way to get things done than through fear, and a better way to lead than by rule.

There were some higher-ranked than myself who treated me as an individual (as far as possible for a ranked superior) rather than a low-life conscript and led by example, though they were few and far between. They earned my respect and I figured that to earn other peoples respect, that's what I had to do. On the other hand, I also learnt to grit my teeth and hide my inner contempt for those who had earned it as well, something that goes against my INTJ sensibilities at times.

Having been on the giving and receiving end, these experiences helped shape the way I approach working with people.

And yeah, I also learnt not to press buttons that didn't need to be pressed. :laugh:

[logan235711]

Thank-you for taking the time to share some of your experiences : )

[INTJohn]

An INTJ, in general (unless he/she/it is the General; i.e. Eisenhower) I don't think will function very well within the conventional military - at least not for long. To rigid, structured, lacks creativity , most persons you deal with on a daily basis will be mindless idiots - I don't care what their rank is or what military school they attended - most persons in the military - like the rest of Life - are SP Artisans or SJ Guardians.........

.......on a personal basis, I spent years working with the DOD Special Forces Community as a Combat Medic/Rescue and Intelligence Specialist - far from the constraints of the US conventional military forces. The people I worked with were the absolute best guys in the world - no one was concerend with rank or mindless procedure & ass kissing, boot licking BS.

You were given a job - an end result was desired and generally speaking there were no rules. How that job was accomplished was generally irrelevent (out of sight out of mind). If what you did worked, no one gave you any shit about it.

Nomad's assessement above is seconded by me, generally. I had a lot of great times and accomplishments. However, I went thru 2 wars, 3 skirmishes, 23 countries 4 continents- was also blown out of the sky in 2 helicopters, shot twice, stabbed once and damn near blown to bits by a hand grenade.

I left it all after 10 years as "dyin' ain't much of a way to make a living"; there's no money it; and it was my perception that most spoiled Americans didn't really care anyway. I have a very good grasp as to why much of the rest of the World hates American Society.........

INTJohn

[Theoden]

Nomad's assessement above is seconded by me, generally.
This is sort of what I expected for INTJs.. Doing anything to get out of the conventional environment and go somewhere they can make a big difference quickly. Intelligence is probably a good route for that, too.

[Happydayz]

spent 4 years as an intelligence officer, definitely a love-hate relationship.

Loved the autonomy that I had. My last job was as a primary staff officer. I definitely had my routine mission and set of tasks that needed to get done both by myself and my shop, however I was generally free to accomplish things on my own.

One of the prevailing mindsets in the military is to concept of commander's intent. Basically your boss tells you what his end vision (output) is like and hands you your equipment, money, and personnel (inputs), and you are free to get from A to B on your own. Definitely some times when you are constrained in how you act, however I assume that this is the same in any organization.

[Oversphere]

An INTJ, in general (unless he/she/it is the General; i.e. Eisenhower) I don't think will function very well within the conventional military - at least not for long. To rigid, structured, lacks creativity , most persons you deal with on a daily basis will be mindless idiots - I don't care what their rank is or what military school they attended - most persons in the military - like the rest of Life - are SP Artisans or SJ Guardians.........
INTJohn

This pretty well sums up my military experience. I was in the U. S. Air Farce for four years. My job was as follows: take bombs off trailer, attach to jet.. or take bombs off jet, strap to trailer. It was relatively easy, but I hated it. There was absolutely no room for creativity or innovation of any sort. We were required to go through a checklist and act out each step in the checklist as literally as possible (subject to the interpretation of whichever ass-kisser was evaluating us).

You're right about most military folks being either SP or SJ. I wasn't familiar with MBTI at the time, but I quickly noticed that there were only two types of guys in the air farce. There was the "I follow the rules because I am good and honorable" type (SJ), and there was the "I like beer and parties and I lift weights" type (SP). I can remember a couple of guys who might have been ENTJ's, but otherwise it was all guardians and artisans. In my experience, military folks were overall exceedingly mediocre (intellectually).

I did my job and followed the rules, because I was basically under a contract and I had no choice. It took a toll, though; It was absolutely mind-numbing. On the plus side, I got to travel a bit, I saved up some money, I got some veterans benefits, and most importantly... I got out. :thumbsup:

[Nomad]

Interesting. My experience must have been unusual. We had our idiots of course, but this story illustrates the guys I served with:

I was drinking cognac straight from the bottle, logic being we were not permitted hard liquor in the barracks, only a six pack or a bottle of wine. Since cognac was technically wine, we would drink that. Bang for the buck and technically within regs.

One of our sergeants saw me and tore me up. He objected to the lack of refinement. He instructed me in the proper way to drink cognac, loudly, and made me do pushups. I was ordered to attend a meeting in his room and to bring snacks a week later.

Those meetings? Better than any book education I ever received. Philosophy, religion, history, architecture, politics, sociology,sciences, literature, sex, everything you can think of. No opinion was off limits, the only criteria being "Defend that" The only hard rule was that if you hosted, you provided the cognac. And the best part was the primary lesson was how it all connected.

I garnered so much knowledge from these people, my mind could hardly contain it.Folks came and went, but the three of us were the core of the group. They were probably the two most intelligent people I have ever met. Two NCO's from radically different backgrounds and very different dispositions.

One of the lasting lessons was that your worst enemies are your best teachers, and your friends, while valuable, are mirrors to who you think you are.

These were men most in colleges would call "a stupid grunt". They died so folks could get a college education in peace.

I know it's not the norm, but they taught me the world was very, very large.

-Nomad

[PhoenixRising]

I think you will find as many different answers ICO INTJ's and the military as there are colors in the rainbow. I pulled 20 in the Navy and retired as an E-6. I could have easily gone much farther than that, but it would have required me to throw my own principals out the window and adopt the military's. So I was never fully assimilated and usually invoked either a Love or Hate responce from my chain of command.
As far as skill building went I got involved in Testing and Troubleshooting Aircraft Engines and Loved it... ended up doing 16yrs of that before retiring which led to my 2nd career in the power industry as an operator / technician at a gas turbine power plant.. Lots of technology and different areas to sink my teeth into so I'm sure I'll be well entertained for the next 15-20yrs (now six years into it), which is really what it's all about anyway: If you cant Learn / Grow / Evolve in your career, you won't be happy as an INTJ... btw the power industry pays pretty well and job security generally is not a problem ;) .

[blueback]

Like Oversphere I was a weapons troop (3 man) for about 4 years. I enjoyed the hell out of it, though. I always intended to enlist and then apply to the AF Academy and when it came time to do that (3 years or so) I found that it was difficult. The enlisted maintainer's life is kind of seductive. I would work swing shift (evenings), hang out with my friends, wash-rinse-repeat. It was great. However, it wasn't getting me where I wanted to go, so I stuck with my plan and made it into USAFA.

Now I hate my life. I doubt it's all officer training, it's probably just the academy's approach, but I can't remember what it felt like to do an honest day's work. This place has the absolute, hands-down, best intentions in the whole world, and piss-poor implementation.

That being said, I'm not dissatisfied with my service time because I think it's done me an awful lot of good. Most of all it's taught me discipline, which I'm not sure I would have developed if I'd gone to film school. It's also nice to have been part of the military camraderie. Some of the people in the military are the biggest douche bags in existence but most of them are the sort of people you're proud to know and a few of them are my best friends.

Of course, as my personal philosophy has developed I've gradually changed my plans from making a 30 year career to getting out as soon as possible. I just can't do the things I want to do while I'm in the military (business). In the end, I recommend it to other INTJs. If I'm any indication we could all benefit from the discipline and especially the forced socialization of the military. If you've never been through a long period of training where you don't have any choice but to obey and do things you really don't want to do you have no idea how helpful it can be. Once you're on the other side you are more capable because you have more control over yourself.

[raconteur213]

Military careers.

How does it / has it worked out for you? Regular or reserve forces?

Many assume I can't take orders because I routinely challenge ideas. Just the opposite, in fact. I can completely rationalize the notion that I have been Ordered to do something, and thus (most of) the responsibility as to why/what-if is no longer something I need to waste a lot of time thinking about.

Where have your INTJ military careers lead? How did you find a use for your system-building skills? Did you just stick through it until you achieved a more influential rank?

As a 1999 Veteran of Bosnia & a 2003 Veteran of Iraq, I have served the military in a mid level management position for the last decade.

That said, the greatest oxymoron in the world is "Military Intelligence". Any real Veteran knows that careers are made and ruined at the club. It's a good old boy network that is terrified of change; thus, antiquated and useless.

My use of Machiavellian tactics have allowed me to fly low under the radar and achieve significant monetary reward. The reality of the military is that it relies heavily on the leadership of personnel who are in over their heads and underqualified. They know this and tend to stifle ideas that are not theirs.

I joined a government service specifically to write literature, knowing that the menial tasks I preformed would not retard my 'real' work.. I have long since stopped trying to rise through the ranks when I saw the talent pool was reminiscent of your local "temps" office.

In essence, I use the military like any good INTJ would. Quid pro Quo, they get their pound of flesh - but that's it.

"..sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand" - Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke.

[Solaris]

I would imagine that an INTJ who took a deep interest in military strategy and reached a rank where he was more or less in command would be in his own utopia. The position of having your orders obeyed implicitly in the carrying out of your plans would, I'm sure, prove to be amazingly satisfying.

They should use this to entice NTJs into the military. It made me gut respond with: wow, that sounds amazing, I want that. The years of suffering the stupid orders of others would grate on me though.

[acyckowski]

It's what you put into it. Along with the preponderance of SJ's mentioned above, a study I read recently claimed that over 30% of mid-career officers tested as NT's. (No further breakdown) From my foxhole, that seems about right.

My experience has been in the light infantry. Yes, as a grunt. It forced a tremendous expansion of my range of behaviors, as I have been expected to lead, interact, and develop skills I would otherwise run from. On the other hand, the infantry is easily the most physically, psychologically, and yes, intellectually challenging of the conventional forces: mastering this challenge was my goal, so like they say....whatever it takes to make it work.

After my initial "hard lessons," I have had very few problems conforming to expectations and taking orders. As a green lieutenant, one principled (and vociferous) argument with my CO ended with this question: "Look, you're right, I know you're right, but is this a sword worth falling on?"

I had to admit the answer was no.

Many lessons learned. First, the overall integrity of the chain-of-command necessitates juniors follow the orders of seniors: the nature of the business would have it no other way. Also, there is an appropriate time and place for a leader to compromise that integrity (and risk his own neck). However, if the issue is not one of Constitutionality, legality, morality, or risk above the superior's authority to assume, then the junior ought to state his case, accept the decision, and execute.

I've had my share of personality conflicts, but the same could be said about my corporate experience. If you are an INTJ in any subordinate position, I think conflict is unavoidable. At least in the military, I knew that my boss would at the end of the day salute the same flagpole I did, no matter how much of a game-playing, initiative stifling, bootlicking nincompoop he was. I can't say the same thing about my corporate bosses--their agendas had nothing to do with mission accomplishment.

So, INTJ-ness has not been a problem for me in the most conventional of conventional forces. In retrospect, I would have been more comfortable in the special ops community, but that decision is ancient history. For those who are absolutely uncompromising about doing it their own way, the military is a poor career choice....of course, so is just about any job at any company.

[raconteur213]

It's what you put into it. Along with the preponderance of SJ's mentioned above, a study I read recently claimed that over 30% of mid-career officers tested as NT's. (No further breakdown) From my foxhole, that seems about right.

My experience has been in the light infantry. Yes, as a grunt. It forced a tremendous expansion of my range of behaviors, as I have been expected to lead, interact, and develop skills I would otherwise run from. On the other hand, the infantry is easily the most physically, psychologically, and yes, intellectually challenging of the conventional forces: mastering this challenge was my goal, so like they say....whatever it takes to make it work.

After my initial "hard lessons," I have had very few problems conforming to expectations and taking orders. As a green lieutenant, one principled (and vociferous) argument with my CO ended with this question: "Look, you're right, I know you're right, but is this a sword worth falling on?"

I had to admit the answer was no.

Many lessons learned. First, the overall integrity of the chain-of-command necessitates juniors follow the orders of seniors: the nature of the business would have it no other way. Also, there is an appropriate time and place for a leader to compromise that integrity (and risk his own neck). However, if the issue is not one of Constitutionality, legality, morality, or risk above the superior's authority to assume, then the junior ought to state his case, accept the decision, and execute.

I've had my share of personality conflicts, but the same could be said about my corporate experience. If you are an INTJ in any subordinate position, I think conflict is unavoidable. At least in the military, I knew that my boss would at the end of the day salute the same flagpole I did, no matter how much of a game-playing, initiative stifling, bootlicking nincompoop he was. I can't say the same thing about my corporate bosses--their agendas had nothing to do with mission accomplishment.

So, INTJ-ness has not been a problem for me in the most conventional of conventional forces. In retrospect, I would have been more comfortable in the special ops community, but that decision is ancient history. For those who are absolutely uncompromising about doing it their own way, the military is a poor career choice....of course, so is just about any job at any company.

Good post.

I have your number, I feel your candor, my take is looking at it on a bigger platform - for America. I can say that the current state is antiquated. Without extreme change, we are doomed to be affixiated by the very hand that fed us. I really don't want to get too heady here, but obviously this thread hits close to home.

In Iraq, i was at a Special forces camp on the western front (classified). i learned alot about our country then. We have room for extreme improvement.

Now, i work for the DoD in a less volatile role, more in line with my education. I am compensated monetarily; however, the frusterations are the same. I hope we are able to pull through this. Rumsfeld fucked us with his ego.

[suzyk]

My dad tried to get into the military, but he was denied in the end because he had flat feet. My whole family has flat feet, so we won't be getting into the military (as soldiers). INTJ's are supposed to be good military leaders, but if you ask me to make a strategy on the spot, I'll just stare at you. So it would also require quick thinking and good analytical skills, both of which I lack. Therefore, pursuing a military career would not be a good idea for me, but my brother would be great with fixing/using military computers. My dad wants him to join Intelligence.

[raconteur213]

My dad tried to get into the military, but he was denied in the end because he had flat feet. My whole family has flat feet, so we won't be getting into the military (as soldiers). INTJ's are supposed to be good military leaders, but if you ask me to make a strategy on the spot, I'll just stare at you. So it would also require quick thinking and good analytical skills, both of which I lack. Therefore, pursuing a military career would not be a good idea for me, but my brother would be great with fixing/using military computers. My dad wants him to join Intelligence.

FIX COMPUTERS = COMM

INTEL = Regurgitating information and making deductions based on data gathered. [Not as glamourous as it sounds...but more interesting than COMM]

[suzyk]

Doesn't mean he can do either. My brother is skilled verbally and with computers. He is very, very good at math, so he can gather data easily. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't join the army, he's a pretty soft-hearted kid.

[acyckowski]

An INTJ, in general (unless he/she/it is the General; i.e. Eisenhower) I don't think will function very well within the conventional military - at least not for long.
INTJohn

I'm sorry, exactly how do you get to sign up and be a General right away?





acyckowski added to this post, 14 minutes and 27 seconds later...

Good post.

I have your number, I feel your candor, my take is looking at it on a bigger platform - for America. I can say that the current state is antiquated. Without extreme change, we are doomed to be affixiated by the very hand that fed us. I really don't want to get too heady here, but obviously this thread hits close to home.

In Iraq, i was at a Special forces camp on the western front (classified). i learned alot about our country then. We have room for extreme improvement.

Now, i work for the DoD in a less volatile role, more in line with my education. I am compensated monetarily; however, the frusterations are the same. I hope we are able to pull through this. Rumsfeld fucked us with his ego.

It seems to be a problem inherent to the nature of any professional military subservient to an (elected) civilian government. The extent to which the government micromanages the mission and tactics appears to be cyclical. A good read on this subject is Hutchinson's The Soldier and the State.

Understand your decision, though, made a similar one myself many years ago. My little "sabbatical" served to clarify what I expected from work, leading me back to the Army.

[Muse]

I'm strongly considering a career in special forces. It really appeals to me, especially if I remain single.

That aside, what do you guys think of Admiral Fallon? Seems like an INTJ to me. He just had to resign from basically disagreeing with Bush's war policies. Such a shame. I think we need more leaders like him in the military.
Here's a good article from Esquire:
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[mental drift]

I'm 32 and in the military now, and as an INTJ it's a hard fit on the enlisted side because there are a lot of idiots in charge, and it's do the job and don't ask questions. Also for the most part the task are pretty mundane and specific again lacking any creativity, although maybe some specialty jobs aren't as bad. I don't think it would be as bad as an officer because you answer to less people and one makes broader decisions, In fact on the MBTI it had military officer as one of the job fits. I'll find out soon enough because I commission in 2009 through active duty ROTC.

[Metamorphosis]

I'm strongly considering a career in special forces. It really appeals to me, especially if I remain single.


Likewise.

[Moriarty]

Why?

[Muse]

Why?

It will take me places. I love to travel. I'll be living among other cultures, working with and training their military forces, fighting terrorists, conducting special operations, and helping people through humanitarian aid. I'll become proficient in many languages. I'll constantly be in top physical shape. It will offer hardcore adventure--two words; HALO jumps. We can remain anonymous too. Green berets rarely distinguish themselves with uniform and aren't restricted by the military's regulations for hair length.

This sort of job seems the most suited for INTJs compared to most other military careers too because every member of the team has their own specialty and is able to work creatively to benefit the group. If I joined the Army I'd do OCS and get in as an officer anyway though so If I made it in to special forces I would have more of a leadership role by default.

$20,000 signing bonus is nice too.

[Moriarty]

Taste the adventure.

[acyckowski]

This sort of job seems the most suited for INTJs compared to most other military careers too because every member of the team has their own specialty and is able to work creatively to benefit the group.

I agree. The special ops community is more welcoming to out-of-the-box thinkers. You have a job, you're trusted to do it, and there's not as much extraneous BS. SF and Delta clearly think that way, Ranger Regiment kind of straddles the fence between spec-ops and conventonal....haven't had much interaction with Seals or Force Recon, but those I did have were pretty negative in terms of creative thinking (or thinking at all).

[Ruanne]

I've been in the Army for more than five years now. I enlisted, and they paid back my college loans. It's been a mixed bag. I never seriously considered making it a career, and my years of service have only convinced me further. I'm an Arabic linguist and analyst. I got to learn an entire language and culture in training, and the discipline of hard data analysis on the job.

I'm in military intelligence, which is different. We're not as YES SIR NO SIR as most soldiers. It's considered okay to be smarter than your boss, and it is also generally acceptable to be a smart ass. To a point. (You still have to do as you are told, it's just that you are not told what to do as often as some enlisted guys.) People are fairly bright, and a lot of us are well educated. Your brain will be used, and indeed abused. Deployments are long, and there are no weekends and no days off on them in a lot of units. The pressure can really get to you, combined with the general combat zone dangers.

The people in charge of making decisions based on intelligence can be the most frustrating thing. They will not take our word for it, or they will come to their own conclusions despite countless manhours on our part, or they will load us down with too much work and not enough personnel to do it. They give no thought to efficiency or practicality. Not good for the INTJ's temper.

The people in charge of making the decisions in general are often even worse. They are often very concerned about making career advances, not logic. This will drive an INTJ crazy. There is a trash detail here, which is a standard soldiering standby, and actually kind of nice to be on if you have nothing else going on, and the weather's not atrocious. But in a combat zone? Where rockets and all sort of things end up in ditches, to say nothing of scorpions and other malicious critters? Someone is going to get their hand blown off, or worse!

Back home you get put on a lot of pointless work details. Some are necessary. Some are not. I hate Humvees now. They could definitely put intelligence types to better use, what with the government crying it has no Arabic translators, while the Arabic translators in question are often to be found picking pebbles out of a parking lot or something of that nature. This will also drive an INTJ crazy.

What's good about military service, regardless of your personality type, is that everyone's in the same boat. That's the point of the uniform and the "conformity." To be honest, once everyone is dressed the same, they simply express themselves with their words and actions, which is more entertaining than dressing differently anyway. The mission comes before your own wants and desires, and before your boss's wants and desires. You become a united team, out of necessity, and you wind up working with people from very different backgrounds. In short, you begin to learn to get over yourself.

You begin to learn your limits. They're a lot further than you thought they were, but come to Iraq and you might just find them.

It's also honestly a lot of fun to run around in the woods with guns while training, to fly to crazy far off places in cargo planes on operations, to hang out with your crowd in bizarre and uncomfortable situations laughing at the weather (Fort Drum, February, -20F. Kuwait, August, 130F. If you don't laugh at THAT you will cry) and the incoming rounds, or just at the bar back home. That cameraderie is hard come by elsewhere.

Also, it's just awesome when a very bad terrorist gets blown up by a Hellfire, thanks in part to your team's analysis.