any dummies in the bunch?

[Jedi_sena]

Everyone here seems to be more articulate than the average population. Better grammar. Better spelling. Better expression.
Does anyone consider themselves ordinary dummies?

I have always undervalued my abilities, assuming that everyone else in the wide world was more sophisticated than I was and therefore didn't strive toward the normal ambitions of college and high-paying or prestigious employment. After taking a test in class, I beat myself up over the two questions that I knew I'd gotten wrong--somehow believing that I'd flunked the test and being horrified when it came to light that I'd excelled over the competition and set the curve. It wasn't "oh, I am so much smarter" but rather, "how can everyone one be dummer than I am?"

[Figmentum]

I've always wondered that myself. How is it not possible, for so many people, not be as smart as I am? Every time that thought reenters my mind, I lose a little more respect for society. I just want to yell at some of these people. I'll just save my profanity for later use though.

[Jedi_sena]

I read in one description that our types know what we don't know. I think that makes us modest. No matter how often people disappoint me with their lack of intelligence, I still don't feel superior in any way, although I often get accused of it. When I hear people say, "She thinks she is sooooo smart," I think to myself: No, I think you are sooooo dumb! But feel quite innocent of the accusation that I am haughty. I'm not.

[AresX9]

I read in one description that our types know what we don't know. I think that makes us modest. No matter how often people disappoint me with their lack of intelligence, I still don't feel superior in any way, although I often get accused of it. When I hear people say, "She thinks she is sooooo smart," I think to myself: No, I think you are sooooo dumb! But feel quite innocent of the accusation that I am haughty. I'm not.

+1 with this post. People think we have too much arrogance yet most of the time they don't have the same intellectual capability than our type.

[The Rose]

Everyone here seems to be more articulate than the average population. Better grammar. Better spelling. Better expression.
Does anyone consider themselves ordinary dummies?

I have always undervalued my abilities, assuming that everyone else in the wide world was more sophisticated than I was and therefore didn't strive toward the normal ambitions of college and high-paying or prestigious employment. After taking a test in class, I beat myself up over the two questions that I knew I'd gotten wrong--somehow believing that I'd flunked the test and being horrified when it came to light that I'd excelled over the competition and set the curve. It wasn't "oh, I am so much smarter" but rather, "how can everyone one be dummer than I am?"I am apparently only slightly above average.
My total grade average in school was 86%.
On the SATs I scored 450 in language and 550 in math - or maybe it was the other way.
But I had a troubled childhood.
I think if I had come from a more functional family, I would have done better.

I read in one description that our types know what we don't know. I think that makes us modest. No matter how often people disappoint me with their lack of intelligence, I still don't feel superior in any way, although I often get accused of it. When I hear people say, "She thinks she is sooooo smart," I think to myself: No, I think you are sooooo dumb! But feel quite innocent of the accusation that I am haughty. I'm not.I agree.
I am acutely aware of my inadequacies.

[gebstone]

INTJs are thinking people, we see things with logic. perhaps that did enabled us to picture concepts better and assimilate them faster and concisely. i believe God created people equally, other types would have some advantages over us. we're not perfect. i think we do better in this aspect whilst other would be better say, in social behavior. academically, the majority of us would excel as compared to our peers. and that's saying from experience. (:

[Meyer]

I wouldn't call myself a dummy but there are definitely some areas in which I am a complete moron. I had a twenty minute conversation with a guy from work today about cars and engines and such. I understood exactly nothing that he said.

[WavesSootheMe]

Many of us INTJs seem to be, in some way or another, perfectionists. This would foster meticulous grammar and spelling. Additionally, we like the world to make sense. We think things through and rationalize to no end until it does. This lends to our ability to express our thoughts clearly. Do we all possess above average intelligence? Maybe, maybe not. It is certainly possible, with determination, to excel academically on only average intelligence. Intelligence or not, perhaps the perception boils down to our ability to know ourselves coupled with our determination once we set a goal. It's incredibly difficult to improve upon your knowledge base if you don't know what you don't know and/or you give up half way.

If people consider me condescending, it tends to be because they're insecure and projecting, not because I walk around telling people that they're stupid or talking down to others. As per our type, I know what I know and I'm not going to dumb myself down around your average joe just to make them feel better. If they were worth my time at all, they'd learn from me and give me something new to learn from them. There is always someone smarter and faster (and if there isn't there will be soon). There is no point in being arrogant or thinking myself above any individual, nor is there a point to being upset because someone is more intellectually confident and capable at a given point in time. Such thinking only leads to stagnation, when ultimately every single one of us has room to improve.

That being said, I do have a fairly low tolerance for stupidity, but by that I mean blatant ignorance.

[Meyer]

If people consider me condescending, it tends to be because they're insecure and projecting, not because I walk around telling people that they're stupid or talking down to others. As per our type, I know what I know and I'm not going to dumb myself down around your average joe just to make them feel better.

I know what your saying and I do think your right, you probably do have ,in many ways, superior intelligence to those around you. But let me offer this, people do pick up on that feeling of superiority and this only serves to isolate you from others. Isolation is usually a pretty big hindrance to accomplishing our personal goals. This is only my two cents and I only offer it because you are an INTJ and I know that you will take it or leave it as it suits you.

[WavesSootheMe]

Meyer: I know what your saying and I do think your right, you probably do have ,in many ways, superior intelligence to those around you. But let me offer this, people do pick up on that feeling of superiority and this only serves to isolate you from others. Isolation is usually a pretty big hindrance to accomplishing our personal goals. This is only my two cents and I only offer it because you are an INTJ and I know that you will take it or leave it as it suits you.

You're right. I will take it or leave it as I please. So here are my problems with your advice: Since when is confidence in my abilities superiority and where did I mention that I, myself, possess superior intelligence?

[TruorTupnm]

Dummy? Sounds horrifying! I remember asking kids who I used to be able to hang out and play around with, "Do you think? Do you have voices in your head? Are you constantly dreaming and cataloging and analyzing, as I am? I am not attempting to insult. I am concerned. Do you turn your brain off for large portions of time? I wish to understand your thought process." I usually got a, "Uh, what?" or, "Dude, you hear voices in your head? That means you're crazy!" It was quite disheartening and lonely. But yes, I always expect to find humans smarter than myself and am usually disappointed. I prefer to be pleased while discovering the specialized knowledge of each individual. To be absorbed.

[ScottH]

I think I am very modest, insofar as I am constantly aware of my limitations, utterly full of "I'm not sure" and "I don't know" answers, and feel rather like a dolt outside intellectual areas.

Yet, I fit the INTJ profile in that sometimes others see me as arrogant, because I seem "unaffected," and impersonal.

I always worried about my adequacy (intellectually and professionally), and have always worked hard to achieve, been careful to not let my ignorance show by making mistakes.

Yet, there are a few situations in the past that lead me to believe my self-concern isn't shared with my peers. Once, for example, I was asked to teach some new technology to my coworkers. I did, and then was asked to do it over and over. When asked about some problem, I explained something (don't remember details), and recall my boss remarking to the questioner "He doesn't know that most people can't do that...he really has no clue. He doesn't understand just how unusual he is." There have been similar comments as well.

So, sometimes I think I'm an idiot, other times I feel smart. I've never had a real IQ test, so I have no actual idea.

The only certainty for me is that I wish I were smarter, could solve tougher problems, see "bigger" pictures :-)

[Meyer]

You're right. I will take it or leave it as I please. So here are my problems with your advice: Since when is confidence in my abilities superiority and where did I mention that I, myself, possess superior intelligence?[/QUOTE]

Did not mean it to come across as advice. My point was that your confidence might come across to others as a feeling of superiority. And your right, I don't mean to say that if your mind truly functions through introverted intuition you are superior, but you are unique. Thus open to misinterpretation.

[Henry]

Everyone here seems to be more articulate than the average population. Better grammar. Better spelling. Better expression.
Does anyone consider themselves ordinary dummies?

I have always undervalued my abilities, assuming that everyone else in the wide world was more sophisticated than I was and therefore didn't strive toward the normal ambitions of college and high-paying or prestigious employment. After taking a test in class, I beat myself up over the two questions that I knew I'd gotten wrong--somehow believing that I'd flunked the test and being horrified when it came to light that I'd excelled over the competition and set the curve. It wasn't "oh, I am so much smarter" but rather, "how can everyone one be dummer than I am?"

If you look at intelligence from a balanced perspective - somewhere between a strictly IQ perspective and Gardner's TMI - then the INTJ isn't likely to be cumulatively more intelligent than any other type. And I don't think we generally are.

Edit: And my ability to work in bureaucracy is very, very low. I have little patience with paperwork and less for pointless red tape. If this in an intelligence, then I a belong in the special class because I can't handle "that's the way its done because that's the way its done".

[WavesSootheMe]

Did not mean it to come across as advice. My point was that your confidence might come across to others as a feeling of superiority. And your right, I don't mean to say that if your mind truly functions through introverted intuition you are superior, but you are unique. Thus open to misinterpretation.

Don't I know it! I'm well aware that confidence can come off that way to others, but again I only see it being perceived as superiority by those that are harboring insecurities. If they were confident in their own different set of skills, why would my confidence be a threat? I understand that perhaps my original line came off a bit blunt, but even so, it's a reasonable assumption. Overall, I don't think that I'm better than anyone. If I am aware of an individual's insecurities, I won't rub it in their face. I have weaknesses just like everyone else. I know what they are and I don't let them define me or defeat me. The better/worse, superior/inferior, good/bad judgments work in specific situations, but are largely subjective especially when applied to two individuals. For example, I am good and probably better than most of my coworkers at what we do, as evidenced by the progress made by my students. However, I wouldn't venture to say that I am overall superior to them based on this fact. It may be simply situational. I have no idea what their personal goals are, what opportunities were available to them or how they made the best of those opportunities.

[saorsa]

It's clear that my intelligence exceeds that of the average person by a significant amount, but I also have some interesting deficiencies. My verbal reasoning skills are superb for my age (23), and my ability to understand mathematical and physical concepts is respectable though not particularly impressive. However, I have poor computational skills and very low capacity for storing spacial information in my working memory (except when I've had quite a lot of caffeine). I realize that computational skills respond strongly to practice, and I do find that I get better as I compute more problems, but the shelf life for these gains is short indeed, perhaps only a week or two, and the error rate always remains uncomfortably high (very rarely less than 30% for problems of moderate difficulty). I am exceptionally poor at recalling the location of physical objects (although I am good at spatial intelligence problems which stick in front of my face while I think) and, despite several distinct attempts to create some sort of system for storing this sort of information, am remarkably helpless when it comes to remembering where that damned umbrella was in "spot the difference" tests. Indeed, if some organization attempted to classify the population's IQ using only spot the difference tests, I would probably be classified as "severely retarded" or even "profoundly retarded." (The sunniest scenario would most likely place me as a moderate retard.) I also find it nearly impossible to memorize rote information. Suppose you took 50 random words in English and established a relationship between each of them and a member of a set of 50 token symbols, such that each symbol uniquely picks out one of the English words, and then assigned the class to memorize this list of symbols. I would find this task much harder than the average person; it is not easy to estimate how much harder, but as a SWAG I'll guess that I would have to spend 3-4x as long to generate results comparable to the human average.

It's worth mentioning that I'm a near-complete N and around 70% T, depending on the test and my mood. It's not as though I'm a marginal T who has worked his ass off to develop highly specialized verbal skills out of a halfhearted T disposition. I am curious as to whether other strong Ns find that their T capabilities are as imbalanced as my own...

[INTJoe]

I'm fairly certain I'm at least top 5% in terms of IQ-type intelligence. That is probably very common on this site. Knowing that, and knowing how much I DON'T know about the world, scares me when reallizing 95% of people aren't as smart as myself.

I really have no idea what the average person thinks about during the day. I'm always thinking of the future and "what if?" and what works about such and such and what doesn't work about such and such, etc. All. Day. Long. The below-average human must walk around and be like "Blue car!"

Speaking of cars, as another poster stated, I know nothing about engines or detailed mechanical stuff. I could learn it, but I need to understand the "big picture" first and work my way down. Frankly, I am not interested enough to learn all that. I find buildings far more fascinating than cars.

If I ever have car troubles I always make sure to call my brother, whose IQ is much closer to the norm, but he can prepare me for how to NOT get ripped off at the mechanic. In turn, he calls me for financial planning advice. :) It's a pretty good system.

[fripping]

Does anyone consider themselves ordinary dummies?

hey guys! what's going on in this thread? whatchya talkin about? *trips over shoelaces*

[Solaris]

If you look at intelligence from a balanced perspective - somewhere between a strictly IQ perspective and Gardner's TMI - then the INTJ isn't likely to be cumulatively more intelligent than any other type. And I don't think we generally are.

Edit: And my ability to work in bureaucracy is very, very low. I have little patience with paperwork and less for pointless red tape. If this in an intelligence, then I a belong in the special class because I can't handle "that's the way its done because that's the way its done".


Any hint of that mentality makes me want to buck that system immediately. This is usually because I can already see several more efficient ways of accomplishing a goal, or a better goal even. I am especially unable to handle micromanaging. The only time I can function with that is when I know I am hugely distracted, and then I'll just ask somebody to give me a kick in the butt more...or I'll do it myself somehow.

[The Rose]

You're not kidding.
I can't stand jumping through stupid "SJ hoops"!

[hopscotch]

One INTP profile cites a fear of impending failure as one aspect of the type. I think this is applicable to NTs generally, though. Our obsession with (or at least preference for) competence gives us high standards that are impossible to always meet.

In relation to other people, I often feel more intellectual, but I acknowledge my impracticalities and poor social skills. They are sometimes the cause of setbacks, especially in the professional arena. In those two fields, I'm pretty dumb.

[banzai]

If people consider me condescending, it tends to be because they're insecure and projecting, not because I walk around telling people that they're stupid or talking down to others.


Haha, quoted for truth.

[Jedi_sena]

I'm not mechanical, like I could program the VCR...if I had the user manual and a half-hour to kill. Or, I could get my husband to do it in under a minute.
Also, I never learned to drive a standard; automatic only--and EVERYONE has tried to teach me.

[The Rose]

I'm not mechanical, like I could program the VCR...if I had the user manual and a half-hour to kill. Or, I could get my husband to do it in under a minute.
Also, I never learned to drive a standard; automatic only--and EVERYONE has tried to teach me.I used to wonder what was so hard about programming a vcr until we got a new one that is SO UN-USER FRIENDLY that I now have the same problem. :cry:

[rwyatt365]

I think that the INTJ type is prone to know what they know, and to know it well. In addition, they know what they do not know and aren't afraid to admit it. This differs from the general population who tends to know what they know at a superficial, or general level, and to not realize what they do not know or resort to "popular understanding". Couple this with the INTJ tendency to give an aura of self-assurance, and you have a recipe for (what is perceived to be) arrogance in the eyes of others.

For myself, I generally don’t attempt something until I understand it. But what I do understand, I have no qualms about jumping right in. People see that and think, "Boy, you're really smart", when the fact of the matter is that I've just studied sufficiently at that thing to be able to do it without issues. There are some things that I do have a natural propensity for; math and mechanical systems to name a few, but that doesn’t make me a genius.

[Jedi_sena]

My husband always says that I'm afraid to try anything that I'm not already good at, but I think that it isn't fear, it is just: why not have an expert do it? or at least someone with the aptitude for it? And there are just some things that if I live forever I won't be interested in--period.

[The Rose]

My husband always says that I'm afraid to try anything that I'm not already good at, but I think that it isn't fear, it is just: why not have an expert do it? or at least someone with the aptitude for it? And there are just some things that if I live forever I won't be interested in--period.That's the same way I feel about it, too, probably because we have a similar type.

I will only do something if I can be sure I'm going to do a good job or be good at it.
I will not attempt something I am convinced I will be incompetent at.
There are plenty of other people in the world who can do it.
I can't stand anything that is poorly done.

[rob]

I managed to fail 7th grade english twice.

[rwyatt365]

I failed spelling in grade school and I failed organic chemistry in high school, and again in college.

[Aesthesis]

I've never failed anything in school. I've come quite close, but that's more due to a lack of effort per se.

[Zilal]

Heh, my first semester back at school I managed to get the highest grade in our giant bio 101 lecture of 300 students and my first thought was, "How can everyone else be this dumb?" I didn't think it was that hard... I notice also I said "managed to" above, as if it were somehow a big challenge. Yet it wasn't. I just have a habit of downplaying my intellect.

I don't think the intellectual gap between myself and my peers is any different than that experienced by other INTJs, but my view of it seems to be very different. I hear a lot of NTs talking about how dumb the masses are, and how frustrated/angry it sometimes makes them. I don't think like that at all. I'm surrounded by people who are getting Cs rather than As and who nevertheless manage to be much better than I am at basic life skills, from making money to finding a partner to finding purpose in life to de-stressing and having fun. So I may be more intelligent, but what the hell does it matter?

Anyway, how you view the people around you has a significant effect on your general happiness. Would you rather live on a planet surrounded by inferiors who have nothing to offer you, or on a planet surrounded by very diverse and interesting people who you could learn a lot from? We're all on the second planet, by the way. We just think otherwise sometimes. But I would caution against letting your thinking go in directions that separates you from other people rather than connecting you to them. It'll only hold you back.

[AgentofGaming]

I've never failed anything in school. I've come quite close, but that's more due to a lack of effort per se.

Yes the ability to miraculously pass even against all odds (caused by laziness) is enjoyable ;D

[Jedi_sena]

Oh, but I soooo want to indulge my disdain for "diverse and interesting" people!
You're right, though--of course. Sometimes I just can't see value in people who don't make sense to me or haven't adopted my work ethic, since I'm not that great to begin with.

[Zilal]

Oh, but I soooo want to indulge my disdain for "diverse and interesting" people!
You're right, though--of course. Sometimes I just can't see value in people who don't make sense to me or haven't adopted my work ethic, since I'm not that great to begin with.

Your post reminds me that I'm not always that great about it either. I have definitely felt my share of disdain and contempt, even when I logically knew the other person wasn't deserving of it.

It bit me in the butt once. I had a teacher I considered incompetent and I let myself develop contempt for her, which I think she sensed... come time for grades and I got a lower grade than everyone else despite work that was (to me) clearly superior. I asked her what aspects of my performance could have been improved, and she said, "Uh, well, the other students worked really hard..." I repeated the question, and she repeated her answer. Oy. So I suspect she not only used poor judgment in her teaching, but in her grading too... I should have been smarter about that.

I told myself I wouldn't do it again but I found myself almost irresistibly developing contempt for the less-than-ideal teacher I had last semester. It was harder than I thought to stop it.

[Learning]

I think that the INTJ type is prone to know what they know, and to know it well. In addition, they know what they do not know and aren't afraid to admit it. This differs from the general population who tends to know what they know at a superficial, or general level, and to not realize what they do not know or resort to "popular understanding".

There are some things that I do have a natural propensity for; math and mechanical systems to name a few, but that doesn’t make me a genius.
I have to agree that I don't think just because of my personality type I'm smarter than everyone else. (Whether not I feel that way at times is another issue;).) It can actually work in our favor when we admit we don't know something, because it affords us the opportunity to learn more. Personality type seems more about how we function & not so much about measuring intelligence (i.e.- Einstein was supposedly INTP). Does anyone have stats on this?

[Tokey41]

I think everyone is a 'dummy' in some area or another, the fact that we are on average more intelligent in general really doesn't mean anything to me. Actually, i've always wondered if we really are more intelligent or whether its the fact that we're simply aware of what we shouldn't be trying to solve and thus focus our efforts (logically) to areas that can produce maximum results from our effort. I personally prefer to focus my effort on a specific field and become one of the most educated in that area. I could care less about how an electrician does what they do because it's never going to apply to my life, i'm fine being a dummy in that area and at least I know i'm a dummy in that area. Maybe it is our arrogance that makes us assume we're more intelligent when really its our awarness of what we're good at that makes it seem that way.

[INTJoe]

I managed to fail 7th grade english twice.

Rob, I look forward to your 2nd post, next December! lol.

[Colette]

Does anyone consider themselves ordinary dummies?


Not here :idea:

[Pinkie]

I feel like a dummy when I compare myself to my family. They're all way more intelligent than I am. But then I compare myself to most of the rest of humanity, and I bask my own superiority once more :)

[Gabrielle]

I never failed anything in school and my lowest grade was a B, but considering that a human is made up with more than just pure academia, I have to say that I REALLY SUCK at sports! I'm not overweight or anything, but I just suck at it. The only parts of my body with good reflexes are my hands and my fingers, but otherwise I'm about as fast as a turtle :-S.

I also get frustrated - a lot - when other people require less effort to learn something than I do. It just doesn't seem fair :-(