INTP and INTJ Interaction. [Archive]

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ShaiGar

11-19-2007, 05:24 PM

The Many

11-19-2007, 05:49 PM

My main issue with INTPs is that they seem to be so insecure in their theorizing, most won't accept any contradiction to their own beliefs. They/you will often be very threatened by this kind of discussion, and act more sarcastic than most INTJs would in such situations. This sometimes ends up being quite awkward when all you want is a good dissection of ideas.

Also, most don't seem to have much of a goal for what to do with their lives, and people not using their full potential somewhat confuse me - however, this is a matter of tastes, and I am not one to judge someone else's choices (unless they seriously need help or some other circumstance would arise). Overall I get along well with INTPs, I especially like their harsh humour and eccentricity (in lack of a better term). Those I know who I happen to agree with are great to have around, those I know and don't agree with are at least good matches in debates.

ShaiGar

11-19-2007, 05:53 PM

The Many

11-19-2007, 06:10 PM

As to your first paragraph, I recognise where you might come to that conclusion. It's wrong for the most part though. I've found that even when I generally "know" that INTJs are not attacking me personally it just seems like it when they attack the ideas. The approach is different that's all.

The rest is interesting.

Well, INTPs seem to have more of a know-it-all attitude - and certainly, some do know very, very much, but they seem to often ignore flaws in their own theories when the flaws would force them to change their opinions. For instance I have often debated with an INTP marxist, who claims that there is no such thing as non-materialistic values. I have still not gotten a better reply than that my objections are "nonsense". Of course, INTJs tend to be harsh in their criticisms of others, which of course may complicate matters even more, as INTPs tend to act deductively and INTJs more inductively; definitely thinking in different ways there. On the other hand I decided to take an INTP:ish approach to reading philosophy (that is, sitting back and understanding everything before leaping to conclusions), which seems to have worked pretty well together with my ordinary intuitions... the types often probably complement each other, INTPs sit in ivory towers and discuss theories, whilst INTJs grab the theories and apply them to the world.

And as mentioned, I reckon quite some INTJs may end up being irritated by INTPs not acting on their skills, but that doesn't apply to me personally. Perhaps it is because of me growing up with an INTP father, which obviously has made me quite used to it - he is a journalist and has gotten plenty of job offers from TV and bigger papers, but he seems content sitting around here in this little backwater town and writing for a local newspaper.

Rohsiph

11-19-2007, 06:30 PM

I think my best friend is probably an INTP. I discussed it with him once, about six months after diving into researching MBTI on my own time, and also knowing that he has some basic knowledge of psychology, and he agreed.

The differences between us are pretty interesting, I think . . . primarily, he really looks, from first glance, a lot more laid-back and open-minded than me, yet, at least since we started college (at different universities), I tend to be a lot more open-minded about things in general.

It's also interesting to note how he dismisses pretty much anyone's opinion out of hand when it comes to arguing over points, except for mine--he'll always take the time to hear me out, but will be entirely impatient with any of our F-preference friends.

We're both focusing on improving our writing in college--he's studying at an art school with a specific focus on creative writing, while I'm at a state school studying a more general English & Philosophy. He produces at least ten times as much writing as I do--fiction, poetry, comics, etc.--but the quality of his work tends to be all over the place. Where I'll only come up with three or four works over the course of a semester (and he'll have at least 25), mine will always be polished and complete before I show them off. He also has trouble following through with his larger projects . . . we were both experimenting with making films when we started our higher education, yet he has never, to my knowledge, actually taken one of his movie ideas from concept to completion. I've finished two short films, and hope to finally complete very soon a 40-minute flick that I've been working on (occasionally with his help) for the last two years.

In general, it's always been a good relationship . . . although we often go long periods without communicating. When we collaborate, it's always quite amazing.

TruorTupnm

11-20-2007, 02:14 AM

I have known two I. N. T. P. type humans. One got I. N. T. J. half of the time, and she was superly cool. I have very little evil to say of her. The other one (and my current roommate), though, is crazy. He'll do the ignorant know-it-all thing that the The Many person mentioned, which is annoying, but it is quite difficult for me to get all of my counter arguments out at him. Because he keeps coming up with more stuff for me to counter, I forget the old stuff that I had planned and end up losing lots of good points. oh well. Also, is some stubborn adherence to particular brands of justice common for you guys? Quite annoying. I tell him alternatives to problems, compromises, but he has decided that the only course of action is to rid the world of all that perceives to be evil, and probably those that are only half evil, just to be safe. *hides*

GOD

11-20-2007, 04:08 AM

Since we're the greatest type, and you lot are nice too, we often spend a lot of time together offline and on. What are some of your frustrations with us, and what is it that makes us appear good to you? Experiences?

I wanted to write a hell of a lot about INTJ-INTP interaction but I do not interact with many.

I don't see INTP's as "better". They are too all over the place. They appear to be malformed INTJ's.

The only people I've ever come across in my "vast search of intellect" have all been INTJ's. Why? If you want to be the best (In an intellectual context)you will follow a scientific process of thought. Hence, the best always migrate to INTJ. Sure there will be a few "randoms" that will achieve the highest of success based on luck. But to methodically self determine the highest of success requires an INTJ mind.

Haven't yet met an INTP that I seriously rate. And I do really only "rate" about 1 in every 500-1000 people that I meet.

mind_wander

11-20-2007, 08:10 AM

As for me, INTP seem to careless about time, so here is a huge pile of schoolwork, within this limited time span; its great isn't it [INTP]. "Yeah, sure, but don't you think, this is too much for an J personality. Of course not, education is good for your health[INTP]." Most of the times, gets lost in their train of thoughts and having trouble retracking it. Off tangent is huge, but its an P personality trait.

OneBadMother

11-20-2007, 11:48 AM

Too careless about time? Nonsense. It's more that we just have different priorities. :P Generally, we're versatile and adaptable at the expense of specialization and focus in one particular area. I'm not sure who learns faster, but I suspect INTPs can manage pretty well in areas that are somewhat out of their depth, as long as self-esteem isn't flushed down the toilet.

As for the strong adherence to brands of justice thing, I don't quite have that, though I do have certain principles. For instance, I do not believe in sucking up to "superiors", even for monetary or social gain. It may sound stubborn and naive, but I'd rather get by on whatever merit I have, even if it's not the most outstanding merit, than compromise my individuality. I think principles are what seperates INTP from ENTP.

I'm a bit more flexible in that I don't see morality and justice in terms of black and white. I largely favor shades of grey, and think that it is ridiculous to assume that not having an extreme point of view makes you unprincipled. Relative certainty gives you enough certainty to go on while still being able to augment that certainty as new information comes along.

Henry

11-20-2007, 12:35 PM

The only people I've ever come across in my "vast search of intellect" have all been INTJ's. Why? If you want to be the best (In an intellectual context)you will follow a scientific process of thought. Hence, the best always migrate to INTJ. Sure there will be a few "randoms" that will achieve the highest of success based on luck. But to methodically self determine the highest of success requires an INTJ mind..

Except the P is likely to have higher capacity in terms of intellectual creativity because the judging function isn't cutting off ideas.

I don't like INTPs. ENTPs are much easier to get along with.

Gaius Baltar

11-20-2007, 01:13 PM

INTPs are some of my favorite people. One of my best friends I've known practically all my life is an INTP. It's interesting how we tend to pull each other more towards center when it comes to J vs. P. We've both learned a lot about those functions from each other.

It's good times being able to talk about all sorts of crazy ideas with INTPs, and they can (usually) take it. The more stable and mature INTPs can even handle me when I occasionally get extremely agitated at something and explode. It's not very often that I get to that point, but they completely understand when I do. Most people get seriously offended/horrified/whatever when that happens.

I have run into problems, though. I've managed to scare off less mature and stable versions of this type. Apparently, they can get knocked off their chairs when someone like me comes along and challenges their ideas or system they have built. Especially if the ideas are taboo or politically incorrect. I'm suddenly an enemy with a hidden agenda, when all I'm trying to do is analyize an idea or get them to rethink a faulty idea for their own personal growth.

Of course, this doesn't happen with all of them. Some of them are more than comfortable talking about anything and everything under the sun.

I sometimes find that they can be a bit directionless. They tend to bounce around all over the place. Sometimes when in a bad situation, they just let bad stuff happen to them and don't take charge. I've had to help my best friend figure out how to properly use the J function to cut bad people or events out of his life.

On the other hand, I've learned some valuable lessons about how to back off with my J at times. He seems to have a much easier time getting along with people. People seem to like his natural personality more, whereas I have to conciously work hard at flexing my undeveloped functions in order to get along.

All in all, INTPs are good folks to have around. Yes, even despite their flaws and irritations.

qwerty

11-20-2007, 02:38 PM

Except the P is likely to have higher capacity in terms of intellectual creativity because the judging function isn't cutting off ideas.

I find it the opposite here. P's generally don't commit to an argument or won't follow it through. This is the most annoying feature of INTP's other than that they are ok and can keep me amused for brief spurts of time.

ENTP's at least have an idea of when not to give up.

Henry

11-20-2007, 05:20 PM

I find it the opposite here. P's generally don't commit to an argument or won't follow it through. This is the most annoying feature of INTP's other than that they are ok and can keep me amused for brief spurts of time.

ENTP's at least have an idea of when not to give up.

I'm sorry, I'm not following this.

"intellectual creativity" = "doesn't 'back down (read 'consider alternatives')"

Nomad

11-20-2007, 08:01 PM

INTJoe

11-21-2007, 12:29 PM

I don't like INTPs. ENTPs are much easier to get along with.

I agree with the exact opposite. Although my sample confirmed sample size is only 1 INTP and 1 ENTP. But the ENTP is very "in-your-face" and thinks he knows everything and has very strong opinions on politics and religion and everything else and makes it known.

The INTP may have opinions on non-scientific things but they only let them out when asked, and they aren't as forceful.

One of my closest friends is the INTP, and we have very good conversations about anything. I can jsut start talking about black holes and mud volcanoes with him and he'll delve right in. lol. I don't feel like he's judging me for being "weird".

I also like that he's "P", because I tend to come up with more plans than he does and can talk him into coming along with me. Camping, casino, etc. An extreme J would drive me nuts, as they are way too rigid, and non opportunistic.

One difference I do see is that the INTP seems less confident in his abilities than myself. He is equally as able as myself, yet seems more hesitant to go out and tackle some major challenge. Sometimes I find myself thinking or telling him "What? You can do that...that's easy. You're good at that."

Of my 2 current closest friends, one is INTJ and he is INTP. Sometimes I feel closer to the INTP. My "J" is only 11 though, so it actually may be closer to his P, than to the INTJ's J.

What I admire about the INTP is that he will read up on stuff that interests him and make sure he knows the facts before coming to conclusions. As INTJ, the conclusion often "comes to me" and I think I'm right until I see facts that disprove my theory.

So anything related to details about things such as RothIRA's I will always consult him about the facts because he buys books and reads them. lol. I often think of him as my consultant or confidant.

OneBadMother

11-21-2007, 01:12 PM

Hmm, maybe how much INTJs get along with INTPs is a factor of how extreme their J is. <_<

lhsimm

11-21-2007, 01:55 PM

Several of my professors are INTPs. I remember one distinct conversation with one in which the dialog went something like this:

He: "You tested as INTJ?"
Me: "Yes"
He: "Having the J means you run the risk of overlooking things. You could make decisions too hastily."
Me: "Yeah, but I get things done."
He: "Yeah, but aren't you afraid you will miss something?"

For him, an idea or concept was something to be explored and exhausted from every possible angle. Acting on the concept was not as important as knowing everything about it.

qwerty

11-22-2007, 09:13 AM

I'm sorry, I'm not following this.

"intellectual creativity" = "doesn't 'back down (read 'consider alternatives')"

Yeah I guess considering alternatives is important. But I do believe there is a distinct problem that allot of people have (not just INTP's) and that is rather than come to a complete conclusion to a problem they ignore it until it goes away (maybe this is a character flaw in me, in that I do prefer to finish a problem even if I waste an hour on it when others have moved on), this was the point I was trying to make.

Whenever I try to argue with a loud and proud INTP around here generally no conclusion will be formed. It goes something like :
Qwerty: Mocks some belief
Intp: defends belief
Qwerty: Attacks defense
Intp: tells qwerty that he doesn't understand
Qwerty: Acknowledges the intp's chosen arguement and tries to explain his
Intp: Aww this is your arguement? It's silly (no reason given)
Qwerty: But it is possible
Intp: It's not likely
Qwerty: argues more - starts to pick at their arguement and breaking down their fallacies
Intp: I'm tired, I'm going to do something.
Qwerty: hello? anyone there?
Intp: ....

That's the problem I have with intps around here anyway. They don't ever commit.

In real life I've only had an issue with one. He didn't like the way I spoke to him so he left and came back with a friend of his in a different area of expertise than mine to try and make me look stupid. It just so happened I knew enough about the field to keep up and prove to the orginal intp I knew more than him in both areas. At which point he actually started paying attention when I offered him advice.

iancon

11-28-2007, 08:30 PM

From what I know of INTP-INTJ interactions it seems like we either get along really well or hate each other and attack the other as being "irrational"... Since both types are very logic-oriented it's usually the other's logic that we attack. I've done debate and had an INTJ partner... it was a living hell. I'd try to get something done and she'd say that my logic was flawed in the fourth line and the second part of the sentence because I'd used an incorrect acronym, therefore the entire case had to be re-done, so when I'd ask her what she'd have done differently she just got frustrated and changed the subject. In retrospect, I know that INTPs tend to piss off not only INTJs (my dad's an INTJ), but several other types by not being too goal-oriented and spending more time understanding than doing.

Amaranth

11-28-2007, 09:09 PM

I posted this in another thread...I'll post my observations here as well since it relates:

I'm with an INTP and it works. I think it's because we share a core set of values (both types are very value-driven, from what I've read), even though we approach our values differently. I charge forward and he deliberates. Yes, I'm not the biggest fan of INTP procrastination, but I don't know anyone who's fond of my incessant rushing. In having a conversation or in writing, my thoughts tend to be neurotically organized and to the point, while his thoughts tend to wander in search for a conclusion to present itself. His thought patterns are more free-flowing than mine. For that reason, sometimes he can come up with creative solutions that I never would've thought of with my rigid logic.

We read somewhere the other day on an MBTI parody site that INTJs and INTPs make a good match because neither of them will even realize they're in a relationship. We got a kick out of that! I guess it's because both types are so entrenched in their individual journeys - INTPs exploring their minds, INTJs actualizing their ideas.

OneBadMother

11-28-2007, 10:04 PM